Another Very Bad Idea

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D-train
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Re: Another Very Bad Idea

Post by D-train » Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:11 pm

Yep he still goes to second hand stores couldn't believe his haircut, which I paid for cost $20. Said he can get one for $8 back home. lol
dt

GL_Storm
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Re: Another Very Bad Idea

Post by GL_Storm » Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:52 pm

D-train wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:35 pm
GL_Storm wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:47 pm
D-train wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:29 pm
Imagine being so dumb and unskilled AFTER high school that you need the government to set an artificially high wage so you can afford food and shelter...
This is a bit of a tangent, but I've wondered for years what society should do with people that are on the bottom 1/3 or so of the cognitive spectrum. It's fashionable to not talk about IQ, but it is nonetheless true and highly predictive of life outcomes. But I think both left and right avoid talking about this. On the left, this is because talking about IQ inevitably leads you to the correlation between race and IQ, so it's much better to discredit IQ as a whole in favor of "racism". On the right, there's a similar motivation because nobody on that side of the political spectrum much likes being labeled a racist, which is what happens if they talk about race and IQ. But also, the reality of IQ tends to undermine core Republican beliefs such as the value of hard work leading to success, or at least relative success.
Perhaps but my Dad grew up on Kodiak Island in a 3 room house in a family of 9. Started working at Darigold making $2.43 an hour in 1959. Worked there for 42 years and retired in 2001 still making less than $50k a year. Umpired 4 Softball games a night and 8 games a day on weekends for $15 a game from late 70s through early 2000s. Is comfortably retired never having a financial concern in his life. Prob has a net worth around $700k and a full pension and of course Social Security.

Once he asked me if Bill Gates is the one that sets the price of Microsoft stock. When he was here he asked me why the games were on so late and I told him it is a different time zone. He then asked why they have time zones. He still calls a fridge an ice box and calls cologne smell good.

Anything is possible with hard work no matter the other factors...
And that's a core Republican belief, for sure. But it really is a different time now. There simply aren't the same opportunities for the low skilled workforce that there used to be. Also, I really doubt your Dad is part of that bottom 1/3 in intelligence. He may not know how the stock market works, but that doesn't mean he's dumb. He probably made a lot of good decisions along the way that helped him get where he is.

But as far as the truly stupid are concerned, the fact is that there are increasingly fewer things for them to do where they can be useful and make something like a living wage. During the Vietnam war, they found out that most of these guys weren't even useful as soldiers. They were too stupid to train and then people would die because of that. They called these guys "McNamara's Morons".

GL_Storm
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Re: Another Very Bad Idea

Post by GL_Storm » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:07 pm


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D-train
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Re: Another Very Bad Idea

Post by D-train » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:21 pm

GL_Storm wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:52 pm
D-train wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:35 pm
GL_Storm wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:47 pm


This is a bit of a tangent, but I've wondered for years what society should do with people that are on the bottom 1/3 or so of the cognitive spectrum. It's fashionable to not talk about IQ, but it is nonetheless true and highly predictive of life outcomes. But I think both left and right avoid talking about this. On the left, this is because talking about IQ inevitably leads you to the correlation between race and IQ, so it's much better to discredit IQ as a whole in favor of "racism". On the right, there's a similar motivation because nobody on that side of the political spectrum much likes being labeled a racist, which is what happens if they talk about race and IQ. But also, the reality of IQ tends to undermine core Republican beliefs such as the value of hard work leading to success, or at least relative success.
Perhaps but my Dad grew up on Kodiak Island in a 3 room house in a family of 9. Started working at Darigold making $2.43 an hour in 1959. Worked there for 42 years and retired in 2001 still making less than $50k a year. Umpired 4 Softball games a night and 8 games a day on weekends for $15 a game from late 70s through early 2000s. Is comfortably retired never having a financial concern in his life. Prob has a net worth around $700k and a full pension and of course Social Security.

Once he asked me if Bill Gates is the one that sets the price of Microsoft stock. When he was here he asked me why the games were on so late and I told him it is a different time zone. He then asked why they have time zones. He still calls a fridge an ice box and calls cologne smell good.

Anything is possible with hard work no matter the other factors...
And that's a core Republican belief, for sure. But it really is a different time now. There simply aren't the same opportunities for the low skilled workforce that there used to be. Also, I really doubt your Dad is part of that bottom 1/3 in intelligence. He may not know how the stock market works, but that doesn't mean he's dumb. He probably made a lot of good decisions along the way that helped him get where he is.

But as far as the truly stupid are concerned, the fact is that there are increasingly fewer things for them to do where they can be useful and make something like a living wage. During the Vietnam war, they found out that most of these guys weren't even useful as soldiers. They were too stupid to train and then people would die because of that. They called these guys "McNamara's Morons".
Yeah I quite the Army reserve because I couldn't handle taking order from complete morons for the sole reason that they had enlisted before I did.
dt

Grandma Lynn
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Re: Another Very Bad Idea

Post by Grandma Lynn » Thu Sep 15, 2022 2:59 am

I remember when we bought our first
house. You had to go by what your
yearly income was. That was the 50's.
So our first house was $10,500!
We picked out our lot and the builder
put a cute house on it, in Lake City.
Second house was in Shoreline.
Bought the lot and the builder put
a $20,000 split level house on it.
That was in the early 60's.
Now in a rambler we bought in
the late 70's for $40,000.
Those days are gone forever.

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D-train
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Re: Another Very Bad Idea

Post by D-train » Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:55 pm

Grandma Lynn wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 2:59 am
I remember when we bought our first
house. You had to go by what your
yearly income was. That was the 50's.
So our first house was $10,500!
We picked out our lot and the builder
put a cute house on it, in Lake City.
Second house was in Shoreline.
Bought the lot and the builder put
a $20,000 split level house on it.
That was in the early 60's.
Now in a rambler we bought in
the late 70's for $40,000.
Those days are gone forever.
My parents bought our family home in Lynnwood 1965 for $19,000. 37 years later in 2002 I bought a Condo on Lake Union across the street from Gas works Park. It came with one parking spot in he garage but I wanted to see about renting a second on for may roommate. They said we don't rent them but you can buy one for $19,000. True story.
dt

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Bil522
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Re: Another Very Bad Idea

Post by Bil522 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:42 am

GL_Storm wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:52 pm
D-train wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:35 pm
GL_Storm wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:47 pm


This is a bit of a tangent, but I've wondered for years what society should do with people that are on the bottom 1/3 or so of the cognitive spectrum. It's fashionable to not talk about IQ, but it is nonetheless true and highly predictive of life outcomes. But I think both left and right avoid talking about this. On the left, this is because talking about IQ inevitably leads you to the correlation between race and IQ, so it's much better to discredit IQ as a whole in favor of "racism". On the right, there's a similar motivation because nobody on that side of the political spectrum much likes being labeled a racist, which is what happens if they talk about race and IQ. But also, the reality of IQ tends to undermine core Republican beliefs such as the value of hard work leading to success, or at least relative success.
Perhaps but my Dad grew up on Kodiak Island in a 3 room house in a family of 9. Started working at Darigold making $2.43 an hour in 1959. Worked there for 42 years and retired in 2001 still making less than $50k a year. Umpired 4 Softball games a night and 8 games a day on weekends for $15 a game from late 70s through early 2000s. Is comfortably retired never having a financial concern in his life. Prob has a net worth around $700k and a full pension and of course Social Security.

Once he asked me if Bill Gates is the one that sets the price of Microsoft stock. When he was here he asked me why the games were on so late and I told him it is a different time zone. He then asked why they have time zones. He still calls a fridge an ice box and calls cologne smell good.

Anything is possible with hard work no matter the other factors...
And that's a core Republican belief, for sure. But it really is a different time now. There simply aren't the same opportunities for the low skilled workforce that there used to be. Also, I really doubt your Dad is part of that bottom 1/3 in intelligence. He may not know how the stock market works, but that doesn't mean he's dumb. He probably made a lot of good decisions along the way that helped him get where he is.

But as far as the truly stupid are concerned, the fact is that there are increasingly fewer things for them to do where they can be useful and make something like a living wage. During the Vietnam war, they found out that most of these guys weren't even useful as soldiers. They were too stupid to train and then people would die because of that. They called these guys "McNamara's Morons".
That is BS right there. Plumbers are making between $125-150k once they become a master. Electricians more than that. Dry Wallers and General construction Labor make $45+k a year. Custodians for my school district make about $65k. There are all kinds jobs for people that don't want go to college.

GL_Storm
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Re: Another Very Bad Idea

Post by GL_Storm » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:59 am

Bil522 wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:42 am
GL_Storm wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:52 pm
D-train wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:35 pm


Perhaps but my Dad grew up on Kodiak Island in a 3 room house in a family of 9. Started working at Darigold making $2.43 an hour in 1959. Worked there for 42 years and retired in 2001 still making less than $50k a year. Umpired 4 Softball games a night and 8 games a day on weekends for $15 a game from late 70s through early 2000s. Is comfortably retired never having a financial concern in his life. Prob has a net worth around $700k and a full pension and of course Social Security.

Once he asked me if Bill Gates is the one that sets the price of Microsoft stock. When he was here he asked me why the games were on so late and I told him it is a different time zone. He then asked why they have time zones. He still calls a fridge an ice box and calls cologne smell good.

Anything is possible with hard work no matter the other factors...
And that's a core Republican belief, for sure. But it really is a different time now. There simply aren't the same opportunities for the low skilled workforce that there used to be. Also, I really doubt your Dad is part of that bottom 1/3 in intelligence. He may not know how the stock market works, but that doesn't mean he's dumb. He probably made a lot of good decisions along the way that helped him get where he is.

But as far as the truly stupid are concerned, the fact is that there are increasingly fewer things for them to do where they can be useful and make something like a living wage. During the Vietnam war, they found out that most of these guys weren't even useful as soldiers. They were too stupid to train and then people would die because of that. They called these guys "McNamara's Morons".
That is BS right there. Plumbers are making between $125-150k once they become a master. Electricians more than that. Dry Wallers and General construction Labor make $45+k a year. Custodians for my school district make about $65k. There are all kinds jobs for people that don't want go to college.
I'm not talking about people that don't go to college. Plenty of smart people don't go to college. I'm talking about the really dumb people, which I said was about the bottom third of the population. Some of those people can probably do some of the trades jobs you mentioned and it's good those jobs are available. But the farther you go down the spectrum in cognitive ability, the harder it is to train people in even the simplest jobs.

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seattlefan-daBronx
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Re: Another Very Bad Idea

Post by seattlefan-daBronx » Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:35 pm

I happen to believe that everything you experience in life makes up who you are.
Positive or negative. It depends on how you react to the experiences.
In the 70's in Seattle you really could be whatever the hell you wanted to be.
Teachers actually included the parents in the education of their children.
Kids were encouraged to work. Work during the summer. Graduate and make your way into college.
Either get a scholorship with really good grades or sports or your parents pinched pennies.
In my case it was washing cars, mowing lawns, pulling weeds, construction,
delivering food, cleaning grocery store floors, washing windows, flipping burgers at Wendys.
Simple work maybe in the minds of some but taught me a work "ethic" I carry with me today.
When I finally did go to college in NYC I went to school at night and paid for it out of my pocket.
No one ever game me shit. I'm glad they didn't. I'm independent.

I now work in the field of social services if you can believe that.
Not because I want to but out of necessity. That's where work is. You do what you have to do.
They government is like a "parent" that now provides everything and yet nothing of value at the same time.
I see people everyday that have:
Welfare or Tanf
Food Stamps or SNAP
WIC for woman, infants, and children
Section 8 or public housing
Workers comp or unemployment
Voucher for child care
Voucher for transportation or metrocard
Voucher for energy assistance for low income families
Some of them receive court-ordered child support or alimony
Free lunch program for kids in NYC
Help from family and friends who do not live with them
Free college tuition
SSI
SSDI disability
They are prescribed by a "Dr." for anxiety or depression
Guess who pays for their meds? Uncle Fn Sam.
I could go on all day....

My point is the government is fucking evil. Instead of providing help for those who really need it....
A person is never taught how to work. That higher education is a privilege not a right.
The education system tells you "what" you will be taught and "how long" you will be in school.
Beside the fact that if you don't instill morals in the heart of your kids the school will fill it with perversions.
i.e. LGBTQplus plus, Pedos are normal too, people are pronouns, fobias about showing their face without a mask,
brainwashing all the time that their parents are bad, the country is bad, freedom is bad and socialism is good.

Some of these kids don't get home until 6:30pm -7pm at night.
No wonder they never do homework and spend no time with their real families.
When they get home they are lost in social media or video games instead of the adventures a book gives you
or the exercise of playing outside or building something with your hands.
Those temporary or summer jobs we had as kids are no longer available at least here in the city.
They're either all controlled by big companies or have been now occupied by immigrants.

Work ethic, commitment of marraige, raising kids, a relationship with the Creator, paying for professional advancement??
All out the window thanks to the massive redistribution of wealth that is our Government.

What happened to the trade schools?
What happened to Mothers against drugs?
What happened to career day at school?
What happened to the mental hospitals instead of homeless on the subway?
What happened to the Fn police?
When did the doctors stop caring for patients?
When did the politicians all become criminals?

We not only enabled this monster to form but we now fear it and it may be too late to stop it from controlling our lives
and ruining future generations from even having a chance to be independent.
Pronouns: Kiss/My/Ass

GL_Storm
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Re: Another Very Bad Idea

Post by GL_Storm » Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:13 am

seattlefan-daBronx wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:35 pm
I happen to believe that everything you experience in life makes up who you are.
I cut down your quote for length. But anyway, is this meant as a response to what I said or is it just a statement of values? It's kind of long and I don't agree with everything you said, but I don't disagree with all of it either. But mainly I don't think it really has anything to do with a person's cognitive ability, which, regardless of how one was raised, really can be a barrier.

I think a lot of you guys on here that are pretty much right wing (most of you I think), you don't really want to believe that immutable traits like intelligence are significant determinants in life outcomes. This is because it goes against core right wing, republican values like work ethic, personal responsibility, and free will. Lefties don't like to think about this either, but that's mostly because it gets into the linkage between race and IQ, which is really not a lot of fun if your entire ideology is based on concepts of identity and oppression.

But maybe you weren't responding to me directly. It's hard to tell sometimes.

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