The Homeless Problem

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gil
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:50 pm

Re: The Homeless Problem

Post by gil » Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:30 pm

Walla Walla Dawg II wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:50 pm
gil wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:12 pm
DanielVogelbach wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:21 pm


Bullshit, the free market is responsible for the flourishing. Statism only gets in the way.

Disagree.

My understanding of the concept of "statism" is that it covers quite a spectrum of possibilities, from a free market economy with minimal controls all the way through totalitarianism (no economic or personal freedom). I'm a staunch believer in capitalism and the free market *to an extent* ... I believe that well designed rules harness the free market's potential. I'm thinking of things like enforcing contracts and protecting consumers from deceptive practices.

Does the free market provide defense against foreign militaries? No. Does the free market provide roads? Not really (unless you cherry pick examples like the "private" toll roads in Southern California, which would not exist except for intense government coordination). Does the free market assure that food is safe to eat? One could argue that food producers would want to have safe food for the sake of their reputations (i.e., would lose business if their food wan't safe), but I think history tells us that government regulation has assured that food is safer than if this were left to the fee market.
Holy Shit Gil, We are in total agreement on this.
This may be the first time this has happened.

It isn't that I like government regulation, but we need government regulation to a certain extent. Without rules, we would be in anarchy.
Ha! Maybe there was one other time a few years ago, but it's a bit vague in my memory. ;-) Thanks!

Grandma Lynn
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:34 am

Re: The Homeless Problem

Post by Grandma Lynn » Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:54 am

We all know that lots of the
homeless don't want to live
in a house! They are too far
gone on drugs.
Give them a home and guess
who's going to take care of it.
Certainly not the homeless.
I have to admit there a a few
true homeless people who
are in need of direction plus
lots of help.
"True homeless" sounds crazy.
I mean the ones who are only
temporally in need of help to
get on their feet.

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Location: Seattle

Re: The Homeless Problem

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:56 pm

Jay Inslee and the Dems now want another $12 billion of taxpayer money to "solve" the homeless problem in WA that they helped create.

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Walla Walla Dawg II
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Location: Southeastern Washington

Re: The Homeless Problem

Post by Walla Walla Dawg II » Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:11 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:56 pm
Jay Inslee and the Dems now want another $12 billion of taxpayer money to "solve" the homeless problem in WA that they helped create.
If California couldn't "fix" the homeless problem with the 100 billion they have poured into it, nobody can.
Money doesn't always fix a problem.
The problem with government, they believe money fixes everything.

DanielVogelbach
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Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:43 pm

Re: The Homeless Problem

Post by DanielVogelbach » Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:15 am

Walla Walla Dawg II wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:11 pm
If California couldn't "fix" the homeless problem with the 100 billion they have poured into it, nobody can.
Money doesn't always fix a problem.
The problem with government, they believe money fixes everything.
Money does more "fixing" when you keep it in the hands of the people rather than letting "government" and central banks extort everyone through taxation and inflation.

Taking care of the less fortunate is one of the biggest tricks used by government to justify / rationalize it's existence. People think that without government the poor won't get the opportunities they deserve. Well, that's not how it works. The poor are definitely at a disadvantage. But, nothing will make the situation worse than relying on "government" to give everyone an "equal" opportunity. The best opportunity the underprivileged can receive is called the free market.

People seem to think that without taxation, people will horde their money and not give it to charity. Well, if that's really the natural tendency of humans, then how is creating "government" going to change that? The answer is that it doesn't, it makes the situation far worse. Charity should be done on the free market where consumers can research and evaluate the charities before choosing which one they want to fund.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all had our millions in tax money back on our pockets and we could throw $50k towards a charity we thought was really helping the homeless rather than rely on politicians to fix the problem? Politicians don't fix anything. Ever.

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douche
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:41 pm

Re: The Homeless Problem

Post by douche » Wed Mar 01, 2023 5:13 pm

DanielVogelbach wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:15 am
Walla Walla Dawg II wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:11 pm
If California couldn't "fix" the homeless problem with the 100 billion they have poured into it, nobody can.
Money doesn't always fix a problem.
The problem with government, they believe money fixes everything.
Taking care of the less fortunate is one of the biggest tricks used by government to justify / rationalize it's existence. Politicians don't fix anything. Ever.
California didn't 'fix' the homeless problem because they never intended to.

Social situations can never be fixed by money. It requires a change in cultural mindset. And that's impossible as you will never convince everyone to get a job, be responsible and fend for themselves. There are too many people who have already given up on life, adopted the victim mentality and sit around waiting for a handout.

It's the same with racism. We'll never get past it because humans just don't have it in 'em. Racism is here to stay. Along with homelessness.

And the 'government' prefers it that way.

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Walla Walla Dawg II
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Location: Southeastern Washington

Re: The Homeless Problem

Post by Walla Walla Dawg II » Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:14 pm

douche wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 5:13 pm
DanielVogelbach wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:15 am
Walla Walla Dawg II wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:11 pm
If California couldn't "fix" the homeless problem with the 100 billion they have poured into it, nobody can.
Money doesn't always fix a problem.
The problem with government, they believe money fixes everything.
Taking care of the less fortunate is one of the biggest tricks used by government to justify / rationalize it's existence. Politicians don't fix anything. Ever.
California didn't 'fix' the homeless problem because they never intended to.

Social situations can never be fixed by money. It requires a change in cultural mindset. And that's impossible as you will never convince everyone to get a job, be responsible and fend for themselves. There are too many people who have already given up on life, adopted the victim mentality and sit around waiting for a handout.

It's the same with racism. We'll never get past it because humans just don't have it in 'em. Racism is here to stay. Along with homelessness.

And the 'government' prefers it that way.
POST OF THE DAY

Grandma Lynn
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:34 am

Re: The Homeless Problem

Post by Grandma Lynn » Fri Mar 03, 2023 2:05 am

ddraig wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 5:28 am
It's gonna be interesting to see what Seattle does with the homeless when the World Cup comes to town in a few years.
Might not be a Seattle by then!

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Walla Walla Dawg II
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:29 am
Location: Southeastern Washington

Re: The Homeless Problem

Post by Walla Walla Dawg II » Fri Mar 03, 2023 2:33 am

Grandma Lynn wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2023 2:05 am
ddraig wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 5:28 am
It's gonna be interesting to see what Seattle does with the homeless when the World Cup comes to town in a few years.
Might not be a Seattle by then!
POST OF THE DAY

We can only hope.

DanielVogelbach
Posts: 748
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:43 pm

Re: The Homeless Problem

Post by DanielVogelbach » Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:02 pm

douche wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 5:13 pm
DanielVogelbach wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:15 am
Walla Walla Dawg II wrote:
Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:11 pm
If California couldn't "fix" the homeless problem with the 100 billion they have poured into it, nobody can.
Money doesn't always fix a problem.
The problem with government, they believe money fixes everything.
Taking care of the less fortunate is one of the biggest tricks used by government to justify / rationalize its existence. Politicians don't fix anything. Ever.
California didn't 'fix' the homeless problem because they never intended to.

Social situations can never be fixed by money. It requires a change in cultural mindset. And that's impossible as you will never convince everyone to get a job, be responsible and fend for themselves. There are too many people who have already given up on life, adopted the victim mentality and sit around waiting for a handout.

It's the same with racism. We'll never get past it because humans just don't have it in 'em. Racism is here to stay. Along with homelessness.

And the 'government' prefers it that way.
Where money goes does have impact. Money is simply a tool for carrying out trade without using the barter system. Money is stored energy. Money doesn't solve anything directly, but it's an ingredient to free market trade, which is the greatest tool for helping humans. But, you want real money like gold, silver, or bitcoin. Not the Federal Reserve crap where they can just make billions of new dollars by pushing a button.

No government solution could ever help with homelessness better than the abolition of government. Some would argue that we must be forced to pay taxes or there would be no money for the poor, homeless, sick, etc. But, if the argument is that human nature is to be selfish and not give to charitable causes, then how does this magically change by the creation of government? The answer is that it doesn't, and the government version of everything sucks due to lack of competition, corruption, and the ability for politicians to blame the other side for everything.

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