SS on JK

[AT Funchal-Madeira]

I predict he hangs on to Haniger

We got it. You have said that before
Maybe the question to you is what then?

I'm bullish on trading Haniger, but that would take some guts and Dipoto, short on success, may run for cover and not take advantage of Haniger's trade value. Dipoto has got cover from some of Seattle's "experts", Jon Morosi (https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1366181/ ... han-trade/), https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/ ... -mlb-trad/), Shannon Drayer and others.

What's his trade value? What's the situation? What are we losing? First the argument for hanging on and buying was "we are close to the playoffs", now it's "we need some veterans to lead these young players". The first is pure bullshit, and the second is true, but Haniger is not a "leader". Haniger is a quiet injury-prone performer, period. Haniger has just one full season of club control remaining and Seattle’s minor league ranks are flooded with talented young outfielders who will need a place to play in 2022. Outfield is the one place on the M's team where we are actually dealing from strength.

The point is that Haniger is no where nears untouchable and if Dipoto isn't entertaining trade offers, he's not doing his job and should be fired. If he doesn't find the trade value he needs, then he won't trade. Could it be a CJ Abrams from the Padres? A Jarren Duran from the Red Sox? A Pete Crow Armstrong from the Mets or maybe catching depth like a Francisco Alvarez from the Mets? An Austin Martin from the Blue Jays? Or another pitching prospect like Matthew Thompson from the White Sox? Those are all potential buyers and those are all foundational players that would or could transform this franchise.

Trading away good players from strength is necessary. Haniger and Seager are not stars to build around, they are above average major leaguers that you get to fill in around stars. Stars are what you draft, or sign internationally, or spend big bucks on in free agency when you have an all around good team. We aren't going to get to the playoffs looking under rocks and diving into dumpsters. And since we are NOT a playoff team, it's essential to take this mid season opportunity to build.
My opinion..... but if Dipoto doesn't make a deal for Haniger.... he should be fired.

[Lincoln2207]

Exactly right. His value is high, trade him now.

[Donn Beach]

I'm saying it's both him and the owners, maybe more the owners. Maybe he should be fired but they aren't going to do it, could be they are insisting on it. Haniger has value to them. That's the thing, it's not about just reshuffling the deck again, they blew off this season. I think the owners would be hard pressed to field a team next season with perhaps even less to market.

I am probably wrong but that's how I see them managing their business.

[bpj]

Plenty of guys available in free agency to replace him with if they're serious about being willing to spend when the time is right.

Add the prospect haul from Haniger, Graveman, and Flexen trades around $100M to spend in free agency to a freshly stuffed farm and they'd be maximizing their future.

The farm should be producing one or two guys per season for years now.

Trade 3 players, turn around and add 4 in free agency plus the trade haul you just got = best outcome imo.

[AT Funchal-Madeira]

Exactly right. His value is high, trade him now.

Hey Phillip, good to see you have survived the plague. My daughter, Mikaila asked me last week how you were doing when I steered the conversation around baseball and the forum. She's still in a bit of a lockdown in NewCastle. but looking forward to travel as things open up.

[AT Funchal-Madeira]

Plenty of guys available in free agency to replace him with if they're serious about being willing to spend when the time is right.

Add the prospect haul from Haniger, Graveman, and Flexen trades around $100M to spend in free agency to a freshly stuffed farm and they'd be maximizing their future.

The farm should be producing one or two guys per season for years now.

Trade 3 players, turn around and add 4 in free agency plus the trade haul you just got = best outcome imo.

Yep, Boston traded away Betts, Benintendo, and the rest of their outfield. They dropped to the bottom of the AL East last year and are right back at the top this year.

[D-train]

How ironic the Haniger and Murphy are one of about 5 guys from the OD roster that haven't gone to the IL.

[bhofferb]

Not saying we should or should not trade Haniger, and I've seen good arguments both for and against, but there is one thing I know- If we keep trading every decent player on the damn team for "prospects" year after year, and continue developing them with the current success rate, I, along with every other member of this forum, will likely die of old age without seeing the M's in the World Series.
AT and others with far more knowledge than I are developing a good list of who we might get for Haniger, but as we've seen, there is no such thing as a "can't miss" prospect (and anyone putting their trust in Dipoto and Co. developing young players might want to think again.) Not saying we should never take a chance, but the reality is that most successful teams have a few veterans playing alongside their stars, so trading away all of ours doesn't make sense.
And for the "we can always trade Player A and sign Player B in free agency" when is the last time that worked out? Last time I looked, free agents aren't lining up to play in Seattle, which means we replace someone like Haniger's production at several times the cost...

[bpj]

We traded for Haniger

Now his time's almost up, like Walkers was when we traded him for Haniger.

Dipoto just needs to avoid throwing in a Ketel Marte next time.

[AT Funchal-Madeira]

We traded for Haniger

Now his time's almost up, like Walkers was when we traded him for Haniger.

Dipoto just needs to avoid throwing in a Ketel Marte next time.

Yes, plus moving down into the top 5 or 6 in the 2022 draft would be huge given the depth of talent coming up. We might add two more elite players to the system. We aren't in the playoffs, and since we aren't in the playoffs, we should focus on development and evaluation, not on trying to cobble together a playoff spot. I didn't mind Marmolejos (He was the International Leagues MVP), but what's the deal with Eric Campbell? Why wouldn't they bring up Eric Filia for a cup of coffee just to see where he's at? I know his numbers are crap, but he's organizational talent and development... His approach at the plate is intriguing.... he is one of a handful of several players that might have better success at the major league level.

Elevating minor leaguers doesn't have to destroy them, it gives them incentive and something to work for if it isn't extended to points of distruction. The Dodgers threw Corey Seager into high A for a month in 2013 where he was completely overmatched.. He hit a miserable .160/.246/.566.. they then sent him down to the depths.... he returned to the low A Great Lake Loons. A season later he was back with Rancho Cucomonga to win MVP honors with a .352/.411/1.044.

The M's have traded away a lot of decent major leaguers from Jason Varitek and David Ortiz to Ketel Marte, Chris Taylor, Ji-man Choi, solid players and other guys still serviceable though I wouldn't want them back.... the Brad Millers and Ben Gamels of the league.

The Yankees have a couple of big contracts they regret.... certainly Giancarlo Stanton and now DJ Lemahieu.
St Louis is stuck with the last half of Paul Goldschmidt and really thought they were filling out their lineup with Nolan Arenado.... Likely both the Yanks and Cardinals will be crippled for sometime by a couple of mega contract gone sour. That's why I like to go for the B+ players ...... following the philosophy of the Giants who probably learned their lesson with Barry Bonds.

We will need veterans...but with a good core of talent we won't have to pay an arm and a leg... the 2001 team was a very veteran team, only Garcia 24 and Halama 29 were under 30 in the rotation. Suzuki was a rookie at 27, Carlos Guillen was 25, Bell was 28... most of the rest of the players were B+ veterans all acquired in trade deals or reasonable free agent signings... Olyrud 32, Boone 32, Bell 28, McLemore 36, McLemore 37 all anchored by our homegrown DH Edgar 38. A team of veterans with no really outspoken leaders on the field... just a fiery leader in the dugout with Pinella, and four quiet leaders on the field in Olyrud, Bell, Martinez, and McLemore. Only one ace like Randy Johnson short of being the best team in baseball history.