Very good assessment from USS Mariner

[D-train]

But the M’s *real* contending year is 2022, right? Won’t they have more/better chances then? Here’s the rub: I honestly don’t know, but I kind of doubt it. Dipoto’s repeatedly said that the rebuild may be a bit ahead of schedule, but I think looking at *how* this unlikely team got to 55 wins is instructive. If the team got to 55 because the young stars that they’ve been hyping arrived and immediately put the league on notice, that would be one thing. If they got there partially through breakout years, and partly through unreal performances by non-roster invitees, journeymen, and sequencing, that would be rather another.

I’ve said for a while that something seems off in how the M’s hitters handle the transition from the minors to the majors. This season began with Evan White and Taylor Trammell face-planting. White’s now rehabbing a serious injury, and Trammell is in AAA. Jarred Kelenic finally made his debut, and has…hit worse than Evan White, somehow. The stars of previous ad campaigns like Shed Long and Marco Gonzales have had down years. The team really made the case that Justus Sheffield was an elite starter after 2020, then watched him put up a sub-replacement level campaign in 2021. Now, all of this could turn around, of course. Young players can be volatile. But it has to be at least a little concerning that the M’s have whiffed on so many young hitters. Kyle Lewis hit right from the get-go, and while he’s had some severe ups and downs, he can’t be lumped in with the rest of these guys. JP Crawford has been, well, I guess it depends a bit on what month we’re looking at, but he’s still a starting MLB SS. But it does not take a completely contrarian, needlessly-negative view to worry that next year might not be a walk in the park, *even with* positive regression from Kelenic, Trammell, Sheffield-and-or-Dunn, Gonzales, etc.

Because of that, I think punting on 2021 would make no sense. Yes, the team may be better from a true talent standpoint (and even that’s debatable), but if this year’s taught us anything, it’s that true talent does not correlate to wins 1:1. When you’re in a position to win, I think you’ve got to improve your team. I’ll be honest, I’m fine with the M’s not trading any of their top 5 prospects. I don’t think you go hog-wild just because you’re a game out of the second wild card. But you can’t just say “our prospects will lead us to glory” when Kelenic, Trammell, White, Sheffield, Long, etc. are playing the way they are.

http://www.ussmariner.com/

[D-train]

Click on the link and read the whole thing. There's more.

[seattlefan-daBronx]

Thx D!

Good stuff.
What's the saying? Don't try and fix it if it's not broken?
Might apply in the Graveman to Houston deal.

I've dealt with the toughest smartest executives that NYC has to offer for over 25 years.
Jerry F'n Dipoto is nobody special. The Angels kicked his ass to the curb for reasons undisclosed.
The article is spot on in the sense that his picks of talent haven't exactly produced dividends.

What he calls "self control" I call cowardess. He didn't have to mortgage the entire farm. Just trade a few pics for an impact bat.
Usually that means asking ownership for more money.

He showed "me" at the end of the day it's all about "him" and his extension. Job security. Your Seattle Mariners.
Back the blue liberal mentally ill politically correct regressive progressive AAAA club of the major leagues.

[Michael K.]

Remember when we wouldn’t mortgage the farm, when the farm was guys like Joel Pinero and Gil Meche? Remember all the rings they one? Oh, wait.

I know, different FO...but I’m sorry, same old Mariners.

[ddraig]

In other words, back to the presumption that ALL of the M's prospects will pan out and we'll have a team loaded with All-Stars... in 2022 and beyond. The M's, my memory, have never seemed to add players in order to make the playoffs TODAY! It's always about the prospects. The prospects will lead us to the Promised Land! White, Trammel, JK, Fraley, Crawford, will all get us there. Thing is, you can look at any MLB team and see that typically their "prospects" don't all arrive at the same time or many highly touted turn into fool's gold. Heck, it even happens to veterans. Look at Seager's numbers if you don't believe me.

You have to take advantage NOW. Not next year. There were players out there under club control that would have been worth sending a prospect or two to acquire.

[Juliooooo]

In other words, back to the presumption that ALL of the M's prospects will pan out and we'll have a team loaded with All-Stars... in 2022 and beyond. The M's, my memory, have never seemed to add players in order to make the playoffs TODAY! It's always about the prospects. The prospects will lead us to the Promised Land! White, Trammel, JK, Fraley, Crawford, will all get us there. Thing is, you can look at any MLB team and see that typically their "prospects" don't all arrive at the same time or many highly touted turn into fool's gold. Heck, it even happens to veterans. Look at Seager's numbers if you don't believe me.

You have to take advantage NOW. Not next year. There were players out there under club control that would have been worth sending a prospect or two to acquire.

Nobody has ever made that presumption. It's the same shit over and over here. You disagree with someones opinion, so you make shit up because it's easier to argue against some insane thing that nobody believes than it is to try to understand the other side. Are you under the presumption that if Mariners made a few more trades that they were guaranteed to make World series run and win it all?

[Coeurd’Alene J]

I gained from this article and the 2021 season leading up to the conclusion of this year, that we gained control obviously yet still far enough away from competing with the Good teams..there’s a reason our odds are always south of the good teams. The day of reckoning will be the hot stove season where Jerry will have to improve our weaknesses
Rotation isn’t there and will not be to start 2022

Short Stop and 2nd base have to be addressed

Dh by committee is not gonna get it done

3 @$30 M each and a Dh at $15M would do it....... or trade one of the top 5 and solve one of these to keep under the luxury tax currently at $210M

No amount of quantity trading for hiden gems will solve this. Our budget increase has to take us to the luxury tax threshold to get us there......

[ddraig]

No, Julio, I've seen it over and over again. And not just with the M's. Teams get close and make one or two minor trades for a season they are close, presuming every player will perform at the same ability the following year. Things happen. Prospects don't pan out. Critical injuries. Down years or veterans reaching their pull date. Presuming that things will remain the same next year is a fool's errand. My only stipulation was that we get guys who will be around for a few years. They were out there.

How are you gonna feel if the M's add two marquee players this off season, only to miss the playoffs once again because of factors beyond everyone's control? The M's are close THIS YEAR. Can you guarantee that will happen next year?

[ddraig]

I gained from this article and the 2021 season leading up to the conclusion of this year, that we gained control obviously yet still far enough away from competing with the Good teams..there’s a reason our odds are always south of the good teams. The day of reckoning will be the hot stove season where Jerry will have to improve our weaknesses
Rotation isn’t there and will not be to start 2022

Short Stop and 2nd base have to be addressed

Dh by committee is not gonna get it done

3 @$30 M each and a Dh at $15M would do it....... or trade one of the top 5 and solve one of these to keep under the luxury tax currently at $210M

No amount of quantity trading for hiden gems will solve this. Our budget increase has to take us to the luxury tax threshold to get us there......

J,
I don't think we need four individuals to get us into the playoffs with a chance at the WS. Getting rid of Seager makes our payroll somewhere around $80 million. Move Toro to 3B and get a better than adequate 2B (Semien?). Can Torrens continue as DH? Go hard after a TOR pitcher. Perhaps we can look at two but I figure one is all that is needed. We are long on pitchers and Gilbert could be a good #2 if he continues to progress. Flexen, Kikuchi, and Marco look pretty good at #'s 3, 4, and 5. Then there is Dunn and Sheffield (presuming this last year has been a fluke).

So we continue to evaluate Torrens. Go pay for a 2B and TOR pitcher. And MAYBE add a DH. Total additional cost for two upgrades? No more than $60 million, and even that's high. That gets us near MLB average payroll. This organization should never pay below average payroll but I can not see them getting even close to $200 million. Lots of room to add from today's $80 million to $200 Million. And since it doesn't seem we'll be "all in" this year, may as well begin setting the ground work for next year. I don't see them going much over $140 million.

[D-train]

Assuming Toro moves to 3B next season, what would we prefer. Correa at SS and Moore at 2B or JP at SS and Semien at 2B??? I doubt we would consider buying both thus my question....