Covid-19

[gil]

The Base doesn't mean blind-followers.

I suppose you can call me as part of "the base" but that is because of his policies, not his beliefs (or actions)....and they are different.

I'm curious what you think about this: I have the sense that "anti-vax" is an article of faith on the Right, sort of like "fight systemic racism" is on the Left. It seems to be the intersection of belief and policy. Am I wrong?

Plus, I thought what Candace Owens said was pretty insulting to Trump. (He can't understand it because he's old, basically.)

Anti-vax is not really a thing. it is a media spin. while there are obviously a tiny contingent that are - let me tell you my experience. I bike all over LA - I have seen it all - I have stumbled on several legitimate protests here in LA in the last few months (Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, and DTLA) - not one mentioned anti vax - that is the spin the media (who is completely funded by big pharma) puts on it - every single person I saw and sign I read was anti MANDATE. Every. Single One. I live in the bluest area possible - the looney left, if you will - and there were a TON of 'looney leftists' carrying anti MANDATE signs. There was one in DTLA that was almost 1,000 folks - ALL the signs were anti mandate and the news coverage was literally calling it an anti-vax riot - while you could literally see they were all ANTI MANDATE signs.

Anti vaxxers is a medias manufactured narrative to distract you from the reality that this is all anti-mandate - NOT anti vax. Why? Because big pharma is their largest source of revenue.

Another case in point. A CNN-addicted friend of mine was going off about "anti vaxxers rioting at Cedars Sanai hospital" here in BH - he saw it on the news. I saw video of it - it was no riot - it was literally Cedars doctors and nurses protesting the mandate, but the news was spinning it into "Trumpsters/anti-vaxxers 'rioting'.

Nearly everyone in this country has been vaccinated for the most basic stuff - obviously no one is against vaccines. The COVID shot, and I don't know how many times this needs to be pointed out - is NOT A VACCINE. It is an mrna gene modifier. So, even doing the most elementary linear logic here - how could anyone be an 'anti-vaxxer' against something that is literally not a vaccine?

When the dust settles on this it will be revealed for what it is - the greatest pharmaceutical money grab in our history. Big pharma is the largest advertiser in the US - meaning they control the legend media - along with twitter and facebook. Have you not noticed those exact entities literally censor anything that goes against big pharma narratives? Who is enforcing this nonsense? Politicians funded by big pharma.

This should be obvious to everyone by now. I have found that the only ones not getting this, are the ones consuming legend media. Do the math. Go watch/listen to the Doctors on Joe Rogan (he is NOT sponsored by anyone) if you want actual information and dialogue.

It's about being ANTI MANDATE - not anti vax. Anyone not realizing that by now is being willfully ignorant. Anyone else know that besides the US - ONLY New Zealand allows pharma advertising? They control the media and the politicians. Follow the money, it never lies.

Thanks, I really appreciate your perspective on this. But I used to think "anti-vax" was really but was mostly leftists, such as RFK Jr. And, for what it's worth, my chiropractor. Don't people who currently oppose the mandates do so on the basis of the harm or potential harm? Don't people who voluntarily choose not to get vaccinated do so because they would rather risk covid than risk the vaccine?

Interesting thing I saw is that Republicans and Democrats were equally likely to get a flu shot as of early 2020 (i.e., before the COVID vaccine became political). Democrats are now 25% more likely than Republicans to get the flu shot. Ds went up 10-15% and Rs went down 10-15%. Seems a lot like cognitive dissonance reduction to me.

[gil]

On the flight home to Boston right now and this thrice vaxxed double mask wearing beta next to me says, "could you pull your mask up!" 5 minutes later he had both masks off eating his cheezits and drinking his diet coke. fucking clown.

The inconsistency (and inherent contractions) of what you describe really bother me. Masking up except when eating or drinking. Not the best look for "follow the science."

And I assume that you now agree that given the recent explosion of cases that the vaccines offer close to zero transmission prevention thus rendering vax mandates completely worthless.

Honestly, from what I read it is far greater than zero, so I don't agree that mandates are worthless. But yes, the protection against/prevention from omicron transmission seems to be (again, from what I read) less than the protection again Delta and earlier variants.

[D-train]

Here is the spectrum on Vaxs as I see it (from left to right, with 1 being far left, 6 is the middle and 10 being far right) I would be 7.

1. Anti Vaxers should be executed. (Actually saw a guy tweet this)
2. Anti Vaxers should not be treated at hospitals and they are guilty of at least manslaughter
3. There should be a nation wide vax mandate and mask mandate
4. Pro vax and can't understand why people don't get vaxxed but don't feel strongly about vax mandates
5. Vaccinated but and think everyone should get vaccinated. Slightly annoyed at those that don't
6. Vaccinated for work or some other reason but don't care what others do. Wear masks when it makes sense to do so.
7. Might be vaccinated are very anti vax mandate
8. Not vaccinated because they think they are healthy, don't fear covid, faith in their immune system, belief in freedom to make own health choices
9. Think that the vax will start killing people in large numbers very soon
10. Think that the vax will kill AND their is a micro chip that will track your every move until you eventually die from it.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

What do you think about Candace Owens saying that Trump is too old to do independent research? That he thinks vaccines are good because that is what newspapers tell him? Is Trump splitting with his base here?

The Base doesn't mean blind-followers.

I suppose you can call me as part of "the base" but that is because of his policies, not his beliefs (or actions)....and they are different.

I'm curious what you think about this: I have the sense that "anti-vax" is an article of faith on the Right, sort of like "fight systemic racism" is on the Left. It seems to be the intersection of belief and policy. Am I wrong?

Plus, I thought what Candace Owens said was pretty insulting to Trump. (He can't understand it because he's old, basically.)

Don't get me wrong. I am not anti-vaccination. As soon as they have a real vaccination for this Covid-shit, I'd be the first in line. I know way too many people that are fully vaccinated (three shots) that are still getting the virus. So either the vaccine is flawed, or it truly isn't a vaccine.

I also tell everyone over the age of 70 to get as many shots as they can.....fuck the upcoming side affects in 10 years as you will most likely be dead anyway.

As for the "fight systemic racism" bullshit, there isn't any. The facts about why so many young black people can't get good employment is because they feel like the world owes them something....because they are black (or of color). Everyone should go out and earn their way. It's a hard path, but something you will feel good about once you have arrived.

An example of the differences between the "arrived" and those that believe the government owes them something is Section 8 Housing.
In Walla Walla, there are several developments that are Section 8 Housing......for the lower income bracket. Since back in WW since 2000, I've seen one of the apartment buildings rebuilt/remodeled 3 times. Most of the houses that are in the program are uninhabitable when the tenants leave.
WHY IS THIS?
I believe it's because when you are given something, it will NEVER mean as much to you as if you earn it. You will go through life KNOWING that the government will provide what you want....not what you need.
And as long as this is happening, there will always be a class of people that believe society owes them a debt.

[gil]

Here is the spectrum on Vaxs as I see it (from left to right, with 1 being far left, 6 is the middle and 10 being far right) I would 7.

1. Anti Vaxers should be executed. (Actually saw a guy tweet this)
2. Anti Vaxers should not be treated at hospitals and they are guilty of at least manslaughter
3. There should be a nation wide vax mandate and mask mandate
4. Pro vax and can't understand why people don't get vaxxed but don't feel strongly about vax mandates
5. Vaccinated but and think everyone should get vaccinated. Slightly annoyed at those that don't
6. Vaccinated for work or some other reason but don't care what others do. Wear masks when it makes sense to do so.
7. Might be vaccinated are very anti vax mandate
8. Not vaccinated because they think they are healthy, don't fear covid, faith in their immune system, belief in freedom to make own health choices
9. Think that the vax will start killing people in large numbers very soon
10. Think that the vax will kill AND their is a micro chip that will track your every move until you eventually die from it.

I'm conflicted about where I am. I could probably enjoy having a beer and talking with anyone who wasn't a 1 or 2.

When I was as high school punk, I was completely for individual freedom. Don't tell me what to do, what to say, what to wear, how to drive. Just live your own life and mind your own business. I still believe those things, but it's less "pure" because I see how one person's individual freedom can conflict with another person's individual freedom. Sort of like drinking and driving. Don't tell me I can't drink, and don't tell me I can't drive. But I understand why society say I can't drink AND drive at the same time.

I still instinctively rebel against being told what to do, and most people I know do too. I just wish people would *voluntarily* take steps to stop spreading the fucking virus. I don't care if people expose themselves to it, but it does piss me off that people use the argument for individual liberty as an excuse to put others in danger. I have a friend in California who is unvaxed and has a fake vaccine passport. I'm fine that he takes risks for himself and his family. His choice. I'm not fine that he is more likely (because of being unvaxed) to be spreading the virus to other people, and is essentially lying about that in public settings.

[D-train]

Here is the spectrum on Vaxs as I see it (from left to right, with 1 being far left, 6 is the middle and 10 being far right) I would 7.

1. Anti Vaxers should be executed. (Actually saw a guy tweet this)
2. Anti Vaxers should not be treated at hospitals and they are guilty of at least manslaughter
3. There should be a nation wide vax mandate and mask mandate
4. Pro vax and can't understand why people don't get vaxxed but don't feel strongly about vax mandates
5. Vaccinated but and think everyone should get vaccinated. Slightly annoyed at those that don't
6. Vaccinated for work or some other reason but don't care what others do. Wear masks when it makes sense to do so.
7. Might be vaccinated are very anti vax mandate
8. Not vaccinated because they think they are healthy, don't fear covid, faith in their immune system, belief in freedom to make own health choices
9. Think that the vax will start killing people in large numbers very soon
10. Think that the vax will kill AND their is a micro chip that will track your every move until you eventually die from it.

I'm conflicted about where I am. I could probably enjoy having a beer and talking with anyone who wasn't a 1 or 2.

When I was as high school punk, I was completely for individual freedom. Don't tell me what to do, what to say, what to wear, how to drive. Just live your own life and mind your own business. I still believe those things, but it's less "pure" because I see how one person's individual freedom can conflict with another person's individual freedom. Sort of like drinking and driving. Don't tell me I can't drink, and don't tell me I can't drive. But I understand why society say I can't drink AND drive at the same time.

I still instinctively rebel against being told what to do, and most people I know do too. I just wish people would *voluntarily* take steps to stop spreading the fucking virus. I don't care if people expose themselves to it, but it does piss me off that people use the argument for individual liberty as an excuse to put others in danger. I have a friend in California who is unvaxed and has a fake vaccine passport. I'm fine that he takes risks for himself and his family. His choice. I'm not fine that he is more likely (because of being unvaxed) to be spreading the virus to other people, and is essentially lying about that in public settings.

If the vax prevented spread and infection then the premise that those that refused it exacerbated the pandemic would be 100% accurate, but now that theory has been completely eviscerated. The only person you MIGHT be helping is yourself due to more mild to moderate disease if infected.

And that is coming from someone coming up on a quarter century in the Bio Pharma industry.

[ddraig]

I'm curious what you think about this: I have the sense that "anti-vax" is an article of faith on the Right, sort of like "fight systemic racism" is on the Left. It seems to be the intersection of belief and policy. Am I wrong?

Plus, I thought what Candace Owens said was pretty insulting to Trump. (He can't understand it because he's old, basically.)

Anti-vax is not really a thing. it is a media spin. while there are obviously a tiny contingent that are - let me tell you my experience. I bike all over LA - I have seen it all - I have stumbled on several legitimate protests here in LA in the last few months (Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, and DTLA) - not one mentioned anti vax - that is the spin the media (who is completely funded by big pharma) puts on it - every single person I saw and sign I read was anti MANDATE. Every. Single One. I live in the bluest area possible - the looney left, if you will - and there were a TON of 'looney leftists' carrying anti MANDATE signs. There was one in DTLA that was almost 1,000 folks - ALL the signs were anti mandate and the news coverage was literally calling it an anti-vax riot - while you could literally see they were all ANTI MANDATE signs.

Anti vaxxers is a medias manufactured narrative to distract you from the reality that this is all anti-mandate - NOT anti vax. Why? Because big pharma is their largest source of revenue.

Another case in point. A CNN-addicted friend of mine was going off about "anti vaxxers rioting at Cedars Sanai hospital" here in BH - he saw it on the news. I saw video of it - it was no riot - it was literally Cedars doctors and nurses protesting the mandate, but the news was spinning it into "Trumpsters/anti-vaxxers 'rioting'.

Nearly everyone in this country has been vaccinated for the most basic stuff - obviously no one is against vaccines. The COVID shot, and I don't know how many times this needs to be pointed out - is NOT A VACCINE. It is an mrna gene modifier. So, even doing the most elementary linear logic here - how could anyone be an 'anti-vaxxer' against something that is literally not a vaccine?

When the dust settles on this it will be revealed for what it is - the greatest pharmaceutical money grab in our history. Big pharma is the largest advertiser in the US - meaning they control the legend media - along with twitter and facebook. Have you not noticed those exact entities literally censor anything that goes against big pharma narratives? Who is enforcing this nonsense? Politicians funded by big pharma.

This should be obvious to everyone by now. I have found that the only ones not getting this, are the ones consuming legend media. Do the math. Go watch/listen to the Doctors on Joe Rogan (he is NOT sponsored by anyone) if you want actual information and dialogue.

It's about being ANTI MANDATE - not anti vax. Anyone not realizing that by now is being willfully ignorant. Anyone else know that besides the US - ONLY New Zealand allows pharma advertising? They control the media and the politicians. Follow the money, it never lies.

Thanks, I really appreciate your perspective on this. But I used to think "anti-vax" was really but was mostly leftists, such as RFK Jr. And, for what it's worth, my chiropractor. Don't people who currently oppose the mandates do so on the basis of the harm or potential harm? Don't people who voluntarily choose not to get vaccinated do so because they would rather risk covid than risk the vaccine?

Interesting thing I saw is that Republicans and Democrats were equally likely to get a flu shot as of early 2020 (i.e., before the COVID vaccine became political). Democrats are now 25% more likely than Republicans to get the flu shot. Ds went up 10-15% and Rs went down 10-15%. Seems a lot like cognitive dissonance reduction to me.

No, its personal preference. And the government has no right to force you to do something you don't want to do. Whatever happened to "My body, my choice."?

[gil]

Here is the spectrum on Vaxs as I see it (from left to right, with 1 being far left, 6 is the middle and 10 being far right) I would 7.

1. Anti Vaxers should be executed. (Actually saw a guy tweet this)
2. Anti Vaxers should not be treated at hospitals and they are guilty of at least manslaughter
3. There should be a nation wide vax mandate and mask mandate
4. Pro vax and can't understand why people don't get vaxxed but don't feel strongly about vax mandates
5. Vaccinated but and think everyone should get vaccinated. Slightly annoyed at those that don't
6. Vaccinated for work or some other reason but don't care what others do. Wear masks when it makes sense to do so.
7. Might be vaccinated are very anti vax mandate
8. Not vaccinated because they think they are healthy, don't fear covid, faith in their immune system, belief in freedom to make own health choices
9. Think that the vax will start killing people in large numbers very soon
10. Think that the vax will kill AND their is a micro chip that will track your every move until you eventually die from it.

I'm conflicted about where I am. I could probably enjoy having a beer and talking with anyone who wasn't a 1 or 2.

When I was as high school punk, I was completely for individual freedom. Don't tell me what to do, what to say, what to wear, how to drive. Just live your own life and mind your own business. I still believe those things, but it's less "pure" because I see how one person's individual freedom can conflict with another person's individual freedom. Sort of like drinking and driving. Don't tell me I can't drink, and don't tell me I can't drive. But I understand why society say I can't drink AND drive at the same time.

I still instinctively rebel against being told what to do, and most people I know do too. I just wish people would *voluntarily* take steps to stop spreading the fucking virus. I don't care if people expose themselves to it, but it does piss me off that people use the argument for individual liberty as an excuse to put others in danger. I have a friend in California who is unvaxed and has a fake vaccine passport. I'm fine that he takes risks for himself and his family. His choice. I'm not fine that he is more likely (because of being unvaxed) to be spreading the virus to other people, and is essentially lying about that in public settings.

If the vax prevented spread and infection then the premise that those that refused it exacerbated the pandemic would be 100% accurate, but now that theory has been completely eviscerated. The only person you MIGHT be helping is yourself due to more mild to moderate disease if infected.

And that is coming from someone coming up on a quarter century in the Bio Pharma industry.

If I understand what you are saying, you don't think that infections are lower among the vaccinated? From what I read, the vaccine is certainly not 100% effective, but it's more than zero.

I read this Seattle times article the other day https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-wor ... ctors-say/ which reported 37% of new infections in Massachusetts as being among vaccinated people. With 74% of people in the Commonwealth being vaccinated, my quick calculation says that vaccinated people are approx. 1/5 as likely to get infected. Is this wrong?

[ddraig]

Take what you read in the Times with a grain of salt. Most of what they report on is directly from the MSM or "Social Media." And much what they report is from "reliable sources" or those "wishing to remain anonymous." They should back up what they report with solid facts, but they don't.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Here is the spectrum on Vaxs as I see it (from left to right, with 1 being far left, 6 is the middle and 10 being far right) I would be 7.

1. Anti Vaxers should be executed. (Actually saw a guy tweet this)
2. Anti Vaxers should not be treated at hospitals and they are guilty of at least manslaughter
3. There should be a nation wide vax mandate and mask mandate
4. Pro vax and can't understand why people don't get vaxxed but don't feel strongly about vax mandates
5. Vaccinated but and think everyone should get vaccinated. Slightly annoyed at those that don't
6. Vaccinated for work or some other reason but don't care what others do. Wear masks when it makes sense to do so.
7. Might be vaccinated are very anti vax mandate
8. Not vaccinated because they think they are healthy, don't fear covid, faith in their immune system, belief in freedom to make own health choices
9. Think that the vax will start killing people in large numbers very soon
10. Think that the vax will kill AND their is a micro chip that will track your every move until you eventually die from it.

I guess I'm kind of a 9. I don't think the vax will [soon] start to kill people in large numbers, but I do believe years down the road there will be a price to pay for an untested chemical compound that the pharma-companies are wanting to pump into peoples bodies.