Post
by Sexymarinersfan » Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:28 am
The great debate:
Rob – I’m a long-time reader and fan of your work. It’s well thought-out and easy to understand. On the topic of Jalen Carter, I want to offer a different perspective…
First, let’s all understand that while we think we know what Pete and John mean when they speak publicly about character, we likely can’t take everything they say as “in stone” truths. This is important to note regarding the Seahawk’s perspective on Carter. Let’s remember that he is 21, and while we are comparing him to others due to his age, maturity isn’t linear and differs from person to person. We don’t know what his childhood was like and how it may vary from a Will Anderson or Bryce Young. Maybe college was the first real place he’d had structure. Perhaps he loves football but was burned out on how the more prominent SEC football programs operate their football programs. As someone who has personally worked in the league (with Philly), I can personally tell you that many of those players aren’t having fun…
Second, let’s take into account the timeline of events. Carter made comments about his conditioning before the season and absolutely destroyed people during the season, then had a long break during which he was involved in a major incident where people died. I would not fault someone who likely didn’t have the structure and support to manage his emotional state after the incident. Football probably hasn’t been the top thing on his mind. Maybe he’s coming to grips with his role in someone’s death – not from a legal perspective, but from a human perspective. I know I’d be shaken up and probably would need to talk to a therapist for many months.
Last, I can’t see Philly being a better place for Carter than Seattle. Again, as someone who was in that organization (on the business side) and worked with the GM daily, I can firmly say that Philly’s culture is very similar to the SEC football culture. It’s not fun. Seattle (specifically Pete’s culture and dedication to teaching GRIT) could be exactly what Carter needs.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. I just don’t believe in writing off 21-year-olds in this situation. Has he made bad decisions? Yes. Had there been a series of them recently? Yes. Does that make Carter a bad person or someone with “poor character”? Hell no. It means he’s 21 and in the process of growing up and maturing, admittedly later than most of his peers. I don’t think teams should hold that against him as firmly as you’ve portrayed.
Reply
Rob Staton says:
April 7, 2023 at 3:56 pm
First, let’s all understand that while we think we know what Pete and John mean when they speak publicly about character, we likely can’t take everything they say as “in stone” truths.
I accept that. But when they say the success of their last draft was down to, in their words, re-emphasising character ‘without compromise’ — are we to go with the angle that they’ve now abandoned that? After one year and the best draft they’ve had in years? Or were they lying? Because let’s be fair, the 2022 group all seem like great character players.
Not to mention the report (not their words) on Thibodeaux. As I keep saying, if he was off their board for R1 — are we seriously expecting Carter to be on it?
Let’s remember that he is 21, and while we are comparing him to others due to his age, maturity isn’t linear and differs from person to person.
I wouldn’t dispute that. But you also have to agree that he might be incapable of changing. And we’re here to determine whether it is likely the Seattle Seahawks, based on what we know about him, are likely to spend a top-five pick on him and pay him $30m guaranteed based on what they can only judge him on, which is his behaviour as of today.
We don’t know what his childhood was like and how it may vary from a Will Anderson or Bryce Young.
I do have some idea on this — which I’m not going to go into detail here. But he’s had a very different upbringing. That unquestionably plays a part. But there’s not much you can do about that now. Our upbringing shapes us as people and they have to make a decision based on the information they have now.
Maybe college was the first real place he’d had structure. Perhaps he loves football but was burned out on how the more prominent SEC football programs operate their football programs.
I’m afraid this isn’t the case.
Second, let’s take into account the timeline of events. Carter made comments about his conditioning before the season and absolutely destroyed people during the season, then had a long break during which he was involved in a major incident where people died. I would not fault someone who likely didn’t have the structure and support to manage his emotional state after the incident.
I’m afraid this isn’t the timeline of events and with respect, I feel like I’ve been through this a lot. He said in April conditioning was his priority, his coach also told him this. He played the first four games, then got injured. In those first four games, he had zero sacks and a grand total of five tackles. He returned after three weeks and began to play his best football, flashing a series of splash plays. He was still spelled a lot. The benefit at Georgia is they always have a loaded D-line. So he was not playing a heavy workload and it worked well. He was impacting games without exerting himself.
He still had quiet games too, namely Kentucky and Georgia Tech. You wouldn’t have known he was playing against UK.
Against LSU in the SEC Championship, he was visibly gassed during the opening offensive series. LSU led a long drive. I noticed straight away — and commented at the time — his conditioning looked concerning. That was the opening series and he looked exhausted.
Then, the Ohio State game, where he had a now infamous display that led to him admitting he was ’embarrassed’ by how exhausted he looked. It seriously looked like he was going to fall over between snaps. He was gasping for air, hands on hips.
That’s the timeline.
The incident with the crash happened after the National Championship game. All of these issues came before the crash and therefore none of the conditioning problems can be blamed on that. If people want to excuse his abysmal pro-day performance because of the arrest and legal trouble, that’s fine. But we should also acknowledge that his conditioning problems didn’t start at that pro-day. Teams already had those concerns and the pro-day increased those concerns.
The reality is, as Todd McShay has reported, this is an individual with concerning practise habits, with questionable effort, who hasn’t taken to coaching and frankly did whatever he wanted at Georgia. All of those questions existed before the accident — which, incidentally, followed a brush with the law for speeding weeks earlier.
So there’s a concerning pattern here it seems you’re unwilling to acknowledge.
Last, I can’t see Philly being a better place for Carter than Seattle. Again, as someone who was in that organization (on the business side) and worked with the GM daily, I can firmly say that Philly’s culture is very similar to the SEC football culture. It’s not fun. Seattle (specifically Pete’s culture and dedication to teaching GRIT) could be exactly what Carter needs.
I never passed comment on what’s ‘better’ for Jalen Carter. I simply offered a detailed opinion, backed up with evidence and quotes, as to why I don’t think the Seahawks will draft him. What’s best for him is neither here nor there in this debate.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. I just don’t believe in writing off 21-year-olds in this situation.
Why are you couching this like I have some moral responsibility ‘not to write off a 21-year-old’?
I’m here to talk about, project and discuss who the Seahawks might take.
Me giving a detailed opinion on why they might not draft Jalen Carter has nothing to do with ‘writing off 21-year-olds’. It’s about providing an argument to back up a decision I think this team will make and why.
Has he made bad decisions? Yes. Had there been a series of them recently? Yes. Does that make Carter a bad person or someone with “poor character”? Hell no.
When has anyone said he’s a ‘bad person’?
It’s quite possible, even likely, making a series of bad decisions — including having awful practise habits, questionable attitude/effort/application, bad conditioning/not taking your career seriously enough and having issues with the law — is enough to pass judgement on whether a team will draft someone.
Whether he’s actually a good or bad person is irrelevant.
It means he’s 21 and in the process of growing up and maturing, admittedly later than most of his peers. I don’t think teams should hold that against him as firmly as you’ve portrayed.
Ah yes, the classic ‘he’s 21’ excuse, which you’ve now used several times.
There are plenty of other 21-year-olds in this draft who don’t have the issues I’ve spoken about.
My reasoning for projecting the Seahawks won’t take him is sound, backed up and reasonable. By all means disagree but I think it’s fair to request a bit more than ‘he’s 21’ to counter the points I’ve raised.
