Stanton on Root Sports

Seattle or Bust
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Re: Stanton on Root Sports

Post by Seattle or Bust » Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:28 am

bpj wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:25 am
I've been wondering if MLB even lets teams offer their own streaming?

If they're all obligated to MLB.tv it seems odd that they'd be allowed to create their own online streaming service.

But then again I've heard about other teams that also have their own networks and offer streaming but haven't verified if that's the case myself.

Anybody know if other teams offer online streaming outside of MLB.tv?
Baker spoke about that on the podcast.

He said that NHL teams are doing that but are making nickels compared to MLB TV deals.

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bpj
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Re: Stanton on Root Sports

Post by bpj » Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:56 am

Seattle or Bust wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:28 am
bpj wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:25 am
I've been wondering if MLB even lets teams offer their own streaming?

If they're all obligated to MLB.tv it seems odd that they'd be allowed to create their own online streaming service.

But then again I've heard about other teams that also have their own networks and offer streaming but haven't verified if that's the case myself.

Anybody know if other teams offer online streaming outside of MLB.tv?
Baker spoke about that on the podcast.

He said that NHL teams are doing that but are making nickels compared to MLB TV deals.
What do you guys think will be their best route going forward to save things? Partnering directly with MLB?

Sounds like Baker thinks Root will die?

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ddraig
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Re: Stanton on Root Sports

Post by ddraig » Thu Dec 21, 2023 2:03 am

Most importantly, Stanton says, the club will need to innovate and create “unforgettable experiences” at Mariners games. “That,” he says, “translates into revenue, and revenue translates into resources that allow us to build championship teams.”

I guess they really should have contracted with Disney years ago to give us those "unforgettable experiences" he mentions. It sure isn't an unforgettable experience we receive from the team! And a friend asked me to pose this question: "What happened to all the money you saved these past three years?"

GL_Storm
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Re: Stanton on Root Sports

Post by GL_Storm » Thu Dec 21, 2023 2:08 am

bpj wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:56 am
Seattle or Bust wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:28 am
bpj wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:25 am
I've been wondering if MLB even lets teams offer their own streaming?

If they're all obligated to MLB.tv it seems odd that they'd be allowed to create their own online streaming service.

But then again I've heard about other teams that also have their own networks and offer streaming but haven't verified if that's the case myself.

Anybody know if other teams offer online streaming outside of MLB.tv?
Baker spoke about that on the podcast.

He said that NHL teams are doing that but are making nickels compared to MLB TV deals.
What do you guys think will be their best route going forward to save things? Partnering directly with MLB?

Sounds like Baker thinks Root will die?
I think Baker has it right. I would imagine Root stays in place for 2024 and then they plug into MLB TV in 2025.

ice99
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Re: Stanton on Root Sports

Post by ice99 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 2:13 am

ice99 wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2023 4:24 pm

They should have some agreement but it's more complicated than that. It depends on the number of people that decide to cut the Comcast cable.
I am using these numbers to make the math easier.

Let's say that Comcast makes a gross margin of 20%, and that they charge people $208.50/mo. Let's also say Comcast has 1 million subscribers.

They would hafe a gross margin of $41.7 million/mo. If they raise the rates so that they lose 10% (100,000) of their subscribers. Their new profit margin would be 0.9 million times ($200/mo. times 20% = ) $40/mo. or $36 million/mo. They would lose $5.17/mo.

Let's also say that 0.5 million subscribers get an add-on. Comcast would have to make a gross margin of 5.17 million/0.5 million or $10.34/mo. to make up for that. So their gross margin for RSNW would have to go from 20% of $8.50 = $1.70, to $10.34 per month.
I suspect a RSNW price increase prompted Comcast to move them out of the basic tier. Let's say $6.80/mo. to $10/mo. Then Comcast would need to get $10/mo. plus the $10.34/mo margin to make up for that.

RSNW probably gives some commercial time to Comcast, but probably a minimum. The season is 6 months plus another month for spring training. The $6.80 per month times 7 months times 1 million viewers is only $47.6 million. RSNW needs to have 3 times that much revenue to pay the M's $120 million per season. So another $13.60/mo. generated by tv ad revenue.

At $13.60/mo., with about one million viewers, and 27 games per month, that's around a half million ad revenue per game. If they lose viewership, they'll lose ad revenue too, compounding the problem.

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Re: Stanton on Root Sports

Post by Pharmabro » Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:18 am

ice99 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2023 2:13 am
ice99 wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2023 4:24 pm

They should have some agreement but it's more complicated than that. It depends on the number of people that decide to cut the Comcast cable.
I am using these numbers to make the math easier.

Let's say that Comcast makes a gross margin of 20%, and that they charge people $208.50/mo. Let's also say Comcast has 1 million subscribers.

They would hafe a gross margin of $41.7 million/mo. If they raise the rates so that they lose 10% (100,000) of their subscribers. Their new profit margin would be 0.9 million times ($200/mo. times 20% = ) $40/mo. or $36 million/mo. They would lose $5.17/mo.

Let's also say that 0.5 million subscribers get an add-on. Comcast would have to make a gross margin of 5.17 million/0.5 million or $10.34/mo. to make up for that. So their gross margin for RSNW would have to go from 20% of $8.50 = $1.70, to $10.34 per month.
I suspect a RSNW price increase prompted Comcast to move them out of the basic tier. Let's say $6.80/mo. to $10/mo. Then Comcast would need to get $10/mo. plus the $10.34/mo margin to make up for that.

RSNW probably gives some commercial time to Comcast, but probably a minimum. The season is 6 months plus another month for spring training. The $6.80 per month times 7 months times 1 million viewers is only $47.6 million. RSNW needs to have 3 times that much revenue to pay the M's $120 million per season. So another $13.60/mo. generated by tv ad revenue.

At $13.60/mo., with about one million viewers, and 27 games per month, that's around a half million ad revenue per game. If they lose viewership, they'll lose ad revenue too, compounding the problem.
There are about 10 different cable providers. Comcast is the largest but others come close. Comcast has about 17M, Charter has 14.5M, Dish 7+M, Verizon/Fios 3.6M, At&t 3.5M, Cox 2.9M etc, etc. The Mariners need to do a good deal. Get the widest exposure possible. Offer the channel to Charter, Dish, etc, for 5, 4, 3$. And go from say whatever percentage of 17M subscribers you get the monthly charge for the channel and revenue from add revenue. The Mariners did the same f-ing stupid ass shit that the PAC12 tried to do when they turned down 30 or 35M/school from Fox? And countered with 50M and are now defunct. Learn the F-ing lesson M's I read where Stanton was like, "I am increasing revenue streams to then in turn eventually reinvest some of our profits in the team". This explains the purchase of Pyramids pricey downtown stadium location, the dumb ass 50-million blown for renovating luxury "Jack Nicholas experience" BS. They thought they could just go fk-all and raise rates on Comcast and got "Pac-12'd"

The greedy actions of Stanton and Co. are the direct cause of their downfall. They wasted at least 2 options to actually add to this club and compete for the crown especially last year. With the emergence of Woo-Miller in the rotation which replaced Ray's & Marco's injury and Flexen's flop. I mean they didn't need a Judge level add. Just go get JD Martinez for the 23 club: Belt, Bellinger, etc

It is simply absolutely maddening that this team appears to be in a position where the decision makers are basically like profit, profit, profit, in an era and a period of development where they have a killer staff, and BP, and several really good position players they just needed to add a bit. This is no longer the case. Throwing away two 90 RBI guys 3 other above average hitters- solid back-up or partial year starters is madness.

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D-train
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Re: Stanton on Root Sports

Post by D-train » Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:44 am

GL_Storm wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:16 am
D-train wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:43 pm
GL_Storm wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:39 pm


I doubt that. You aren't creating net new viewers. Out of market fans already have a subscription service they're willing to pay for. The question right now is how do you make the product available to local market viewers and how much money will you make on that?
10M subscribers is only 333k per franchise. Are you telling me there aren't that many per team will to pay $1.85 to watch a game when that is the only option. There are probably $5M Yankee, Red Sox and Dodger fans alone willing to do that.
What I'm saying is that you aren't magically creating new paying viewers. If you break the market into two segments, local (regional viewers) and out-of-market, both of those segments are being served right now under the existing system.

As for what the numbers would be under a single system, I'm willing to believe 10 million total would be payers at some price level, but certainly not $300.
If Root dissolves you are LITERALLY non Magically creating new viewers willing to pay. I went to the Seahawks SB Parade in 7 degree weather attended by 1 MILLION people. Are telling me that in WA, AK, OR, ID and Western MT (12M people) there aren't 333k (2.5%) people willing to pay less than 2 freaking dollars a game to watch if that is there ONLY option????
dt

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Donn Beach
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Re: Stanton on Root Sports

Post by Donn Beach » Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:26 am

bpj wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:52 am
harmony wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:48 am
ddraig wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:37 pm
There is a great possibility that the M's replace the A's at the bottom of the division in 2024. Will they be able to keep from losing 100 games?
"Right now, the Mariners look like a team that’s likely to win 85-90 games, at least if you believe ZiPS."

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-zips-p ... -mariners/
85 seems reasonable in my opinion.

I don't think it's that difficult to replace Geno's production at all.

And some bounceback from France could replace Teoscar.

I don't think our offense is much worse and our pitching has a good chance to take a step forward next season.

Plus they don't have Kelenic around killing the vibe.

If they'd add a couple good players they could fight to make the playoffs, then, who knows.
Yeah, folks are disappointed but the 100 loss predictions I think are a little over the top. They can still field a pretty good team, basically because of the pitching. The issue is settling for good

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D-train
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Re: Stanton on Root Sports

Post by D-train » Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:43 am

Donn Beach wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:26 am
bpj wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:52 am
harmony wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:48 am

"Right now, the Mariners look like a team that’s likely to win 85-90 games, at least if you believe ZiPS."

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-zips-p ... -mariners/
85 seems reasonable in my opinion.

I don't think it's that difficult to replace Geno's production at all.

And some bounceback from France could replace Teoscar.

I don't think our offense is much worse and our pitching has a good chance to take a step forward next season.

Plus they don't have Kelenic around killing the vibe.

If they'd add a couple good players they could fight to make the playoffs, then, who knows.
Yeah, folks are disappointed but the 100 loss predictions I think are a little over the top. They can still field a pretty good team, basically because of the pitching. The issue is settling for good
Yes there are definitely a couple trolls on the forum that don't know ball or are letting their frustrations get the best of them.
dt

GL_Storm
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Re: Stanton on Root Sports

Post by GL_Storm » Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:33 pm

D-train wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:44 am
GL_Storm wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:16 am
D-train wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:43 pm


10M subscribers is only 333k per franchise. Are you telling me there aren't that many per team will to pay $1.85 to watch a game when that is the only option. There are probably $5M Yankee, Red Sox and Dodger fans alone willing to do that.
What I'm saying is that you aren't magically creating new paying viewers. If you break the market into two segments, local (regional viewers) and out-of-market, both of those segments are being served right now under the existing system.

As for what the numbers would be under a single system, I'm willing to believe 10 million total would be payers at some price level, but certainly not $300.
If Root dissolves you are LITERALLY non Magically creating new viewers willing to pay. I went to the Seahawks SB Parade in 7 degree weather attended by 1 MILLION people. Are telling me that in WA, AK, OR, ID and Western MT (12M people) there aren't 333k (2.5%) people willing to pay less than 2 freaking dollars a game to watch if that is there ONLY option????
Yes, if the only choice is to pay $300 for the entire season you won't get that many.

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