Debate for the Ages Thread

[gil]

A tariff is a tax. Just a fancy word for over-taxing something from some other country.

And the question is, "Why does President Trump keep saying that the other country is paying the tariff"? Especially when that isn't the case. It's the consumer paying the higher tax for that product from China (or elsewhere).

And a little bit of information on the corporate tax structure.....
CORPORATIONS DON'T PAY TAX

If the Corporate tax is raised, the corporation will just raise the cost of their product, thus passing the additional cost to us (the consumer). So in essence, all that raising corporate taxes is going to do is to make their product more expensive.

Same playbook by the left every election cycle.

I don't know what your playbook by the left comment means, but ...

Either a tariff paid by an importer or a tax paid by a corporation (or a business organized in some other way) increases that firms costs. These costs MAY be passed on to the consumer (the firm certainly wants to) but the market and the forces of supply and demand dictate that.

I understand the argument of protecting American businesses. I've said before, I do my best to "buy American" but I think people should be free to do otherwise.

Another argument against tariffs is that the "protection" can simply have the effect of making the "protected industry" fat and lazy. It happened with the US auto industry in the 1970s and 1980s (I think those were the years), where American auto companies stopped investing in innovations because ... they were not facing foreign competition because of protective tariffs. Meanwhile, auto companies in places like Japan and Germany innovated continually and got a decade ahead of our companies in knowledge. Why did the innovate? The HAD to to survive. Our auto companies did not.

None of this answers the question, is trump uninformed or misrepresenting the truth?

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

A tariff is a tax. Just a fancy word for over-taxing something from some other country.

And the question is, "Why does President Trump keep saying that the other country is paying the tariff"? Especially when that isn't the case. It's the consumer paying the higher tax for that product from China (or elsewhere).

And a little bit of information on the corporate tax structure.....
CORPORATIONS DON'T PAY TAX

If the Corporate tax is raised, the corporation will just raise the cost of their product, thus passing the additional cost to us (the consumer). So in essence, all that raising corporate taxes is going to do is to make their product more expensive.

Same playbook by the left every election cycle.

Personally I don't have a problem with tariffs leveling the playing field for American businesses.

I totally agree.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

I don't know what your playbook by the left comment means, but ...

The rich need to pay their fair share.
You hear it over and over again from the left. It's their excuse to force higher corporate taxes.... but that only makes the consumer pay more. That would be US.

When you look at the taxes collected, a vast majority of taxes are paid by the wealthy....not the poor. So why should the wealthy pay more taxes...why? Are they more of a burden on the system? No, that would be the poor that is the burden since they use the same streets, programs, parks, etc... as the wealthy. But for some reason, the left is always screaming that the rich should pay more.

Honestly, I believe they should pay more than the poor because they can handle it. But in reality, they are already taxed too much.

We need to have a hard discussion about cutting spending, not collecting more.

[gil]

I don't know what your playbook by the left comment means, but ...

We need to have a hard discussion about cutting spending, not collecting more.

Agree completely. But it's not a one party problem. If I thought that Republicans handled the economy better than Democrats, I'd probably still be a Republican.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

I don't know what your playbook by the left comment means, but ...

We need to have a hard discussion about cutting spending, not collecting more.

Agree completely. But it's not a one party problem. If I thought that Republicans handled the economy better than Democrats, I'd probably still be a Republican.

All the free handouts and social programs is your idea of handling spending and the economy.
The trillions and trillions we are in debt has mostly been by democrats.

[gil]

We need to have a hard discussion about cutting spending, not collecting more.

Agree completely. But it's not a one party problem. If I thought that Republicans handled the economy better than Democrats, I'd probably still be a Republican.

All the free handouts and social programs is your idea of handling spending and the economy.
The trillions and trillions we are in debt has mostly been by democrats.

USA Today just had an article on this two days ago. It does not appear that democrats have contributed the most to the debt. (If you look at percentage increase, it's been the republicans.)

https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprin ... resident/

[Seattle or Bust]

I don't know what your playbook by the left comment means, but ...

The rich need to pay their fair share.
You hear it over and over again from the left. It's their excuse to force higher corporate taxes.... but that only makes the consumer pay more. That would be US.

When you look at the taxes collected, a vast majority of taxes are paid by the wealthy....not the poor. So why should the wealthy pay more taxes...why? Are they more of a burden on the system? No, that would be the poor that is the burden since they use the same streets, programs, parks, etc... as the wealthy. But for some reason, the left is always screaming that the rich should pay more.

Honestly, I believe they should pay more than the poor because they can handle it. But in reality, they are already taxed too much.

We need to have a hard discussion about cutting spending, not collecting more.

The logic of, "don't tax insanely wealthy corporations because they will just charge more" is hilarious to me. How about they charge what's fucking fair and still make mountains of money?

The top 1% has enjoyed a 140% wage growth since 1979.

The wages for the bottom 90% only grew 15% over that time.

That's the problem. It's greed... and taxes are about the only line of defense in the face of greed.

Corporations will not charge less if you tax them less. They will just rake in the profit.

[Seattle or Bust]

I don't think there could be a more perfect example of our differences in philosophy. You are angry about an independent merchandise booth on the side of a road somewhere (probably California - ha!). A completely legal and ethical endeavor and a perfect example of the free market in action. People will buy - or not. If you have a problem with merchandise booths - then you have to have a problem with ALL of them - including sports and churros - otherwise you are being a hypocrite. See how that works? Would you be outraged at a Kamala Harris merch booth? Your answer needs to be the same as the trump merch booth - or ANY merch booth - again - or you are a hypocrite. If someone wants to sell wares - what's the problem?

reminder of what a hypocrite is

1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.

But that's not even the best part about the differences difference between us.

I am concerned about the open border and the devastation it is wreaking and the staggering cost to the US tax payer.
I am concerned about the war mongering in the middle east. That's a fact.
I am concerned about the government actively proven to be censoring health information and their concerted effort to silence a political foe.
I am concerned about the economy, inflation, gas, food prices, all the things making me poorer and eroding what's left of the middle class.
I am concerned about government's reckless spending of my tax dollars on nonsense like Ukraine - which has NO pay off, money that could be used here at home for things like roads, upgrading infrastructure.
I am deeply concerned about the drug trafficking at the b order that is fueling the decline of the inner cities on the west coast.
I am concerned about human trafficking, the enslavement, murder, rape, abducting of women and children at the border.

I am concerned about policies that affect all Americans wallets and safety - and you are worried about a merch booth on the side of the road.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on what is important in this country.

No, I'm concerned about instilling a deranged psychopath in the White House again. I'm concerned about preserving democracy.

1. Trump's answer for an entire campaign was to build a wall, where the fuck is it? Notice how he hasn't mentioned that all campaign cycle?
2. Then you shouldn't be a conservative because conservatives instilled the most Middle East war mongering presidential ticket for 8 years.
3. If you're speaking toward Covid, I can't help you. The world shut down...
4. "Making me poorer" ... yeah, OK Mr. Beverly Hills. I'm sure you're doing fine... can't say the same for the poorest in America who Trump will do diddly shit to help while cutting taxes for the rich.
5. If you don't like reckless spending, go take a look at how Trump inflated the deficit by $7.8 trillion. Yeah, and where was Trump's infrastructure bill? Oh yeah, stuck right up his orange tinted ass. https://www.whitehouse.gov/build/ <- here, you can see where Biden's build is impacting.
6. Where's the beautiful wall to stop all the drugs coming in?
7. Where's the beautiful wall to stop all the trafficking?

Nothing you've spoken to was fixed by Trump over his 4 years. You claim you want all these things fixed but he has no answers for any of it. I've seen the Biden/Harris ticket try to tackle some of the things on your list that persist.

I have no faith Trump can do any of it and that, coupled with the fact that he's deranged, is the tipping point for me and the majority of Americans who ousted him the last time around.

**incoming 4,500 word essay of nonsense that I won't read**

1) He got hundreds of miles done. Then Biden, of course, stopped building it when he took over. Here is a video of him saying again that he'll finish it-

2) Trump had no wars.

4) The poorest people in America aren't being helped by illegals being here taking housing they could have had and driving up rents and property prices. Basic supply and demand.

6&7) Biden stopped the wall construction.

You've brought up this thing about Biden stopping wall construction before. Yes, he was never going to build Trump's idiot wall. I still don't know what your point is there. What you're suggesting is so outlandish that I don't even think you believe it. It was Trump's main campaign promise in 2016 and he didn't come through on it. It's not part of his platform today because he failed on it.

We've had this discussion before. Mexicans and immigrants who take low-level jobs that Americans don't want to work are not the problem in my eyes. They're essential for agriculture and small business. What I view as a major problem with immigration is immigrants who come here on work visas, buy up all the housing, send half their money back to their home country, and take high-level jobs from Americans in tech and fields that keep Americans competitive. Another ploy in corporate greed because they just cycle these people out to keep from ever having to pay people as they advance in their careers.

If I had my say, which I don't... I'd remove all manufacturing from foreign countries and force US businesses/corporations to push ALL production /build factories in parts of the US where labor is scarce. Good luck getting rich people to agree to that though.

[bpj]

No, I'm concerned about instilling a deranged psychopath in the White House again. I'm concerned about preserving democracy.

1. Trump's answer for an entire campaign was to build a wall, where the fuck is it? Notice how he hasn't mentioned that all campaign cycle?
2. Then you shouldn't be a conservative because conservatives instilled the most Middle East war mongering presidential ticket for 8 years.
3. If you're speaking toward Covid, I can't help you. The world shut down...
4. "Making me poorer" ... yeah, OK Mr. Beverly Hills. I'm sure you're doing fine... can't say the same for the poorest in America who Trump will do diddly shit to help while cutting taxes for the rich.
5. If you don't like reckless spending, go take a look at how Trump inflated the deficit by $7.8 trillion. Yeah, and where was Trump's infrastructure bill? Oh yeah, stuck right up his orange tinted ass. https://www.whitehouse.gov/build/ <- here, you can see where Biden's build is impacting.
6. Where's the beautiful wall to stop all the drugs coming in?
7. Where's the beautiful wall to stop all the trafficking?

Nothing you've spoken to was fixed by Trump over his 4 years. You claim you want all these things fixed but he has no answers for any of it. I've seen the Biden/Harris ticket try to tackle some of the things on your list that persist.

I have no faith Trump can do any of it and that, coupled with the fact that he's deranged, is the tipping point for me and the majority of Americans who ousted him the last time around.

**incoming 4,500 word essay of nonsense that I won't read**

1) He got hundreds of miles done. Then Biden, of course, stopped building it when he took over. Here is a video of him saying again that he'll finish it-

2) Trump had no wars.

4) The poorest people in America aren't being helped by illegals being here taking housing they could have had and driving up rents and property prices. Basic supply and demand.

6&7) Biden stopped the wall construction.

You've brought up this thing about Biden stopping wall construction before. Yes, he was never going to build Trump's idiot wall. I still don't know what your point is there. What you're suggesting is so outlandish that I don't even think you believe it. It was Trump's main campaign promise in 2016 and he didn't come through on it. It's not part of his platform today because he failed on it.

We've had this discussion before. Mexicans and immigrants who take low-level jobs that Americans don't want to work are not the problem in my eyes. They're essential for agriculture and small business. What I view as a major problem with immigration is immigrants who come here on work visas, buy up all the housing, send half their money back to their home country, and take high-level jobs from Americans in tech and fields that keep Americans competitive. Another ploy in corporate greed because they just cycle these people out to keep from ever having to pay people as they advance in their careers.

If I had my say, which I don't... I'd remove all manufacturing from foreign countries and force US businesses/corporations to push ALL production /build factories in parts of the US where labor is scarce. Good luck getting rich people to agree to that though.

I'm just responding to you asking, "Where's the wall??" in 3 out of your 7 questions.

The wall was being built, it doesn't happen overnight. Especially with half of Congress fighting against using $10B for the wall, only to turn around and send hundreds of billions to Ukraine and Israel.

1. Trump's answer for an entire campaign was to build a wall, where the fuck is it? Notice how he hasn't mentioned that all campaign cycle?

6. Where's the beautiful wall to stop all the drugs coming in?
7. Where's the beautiful wall to stop all the trafficking?

We don't know who's coming through our wide open borders, that's the problem.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Agree completely. But it's not a one party problem. If I thought that Republicans handled the economy better than Democrats, I'd probably still be a Republican.

All the free handouts and social programs is your idea of handling spending and the economy.
The trillions and trillions we are in debt has mostly been by democrats.

USA Today just had an article on this two days ago. It does not appear that democrats have contributed the most to the debt. (If you look at percentage increase, it's been the republicans.)

national debt by president.jpg

https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprin ... resident/

If I remember right:
Bush Jr. had Hurricane Katrina to deal with. He also had 911 and a war to fund.

Obama created Obama-Care that was backed by the Chinese and a lot of that was deferred to the future.

Trump had Covid that we paid out billions to the American People to not work. I'm sure you can remember, just take the 4 week break and flatten the curve. Then the democrats got involved and it bled into the Biden Administration for 2-3 years. Shit man, even last year the teachers union wanted shutdowns.

Biden had the Green New Deal that costs TRILLIONS. He really didn't spend anything past that because congress shut him down.

As I said, we need a serious discussion on CUTTING SPENDING not how to spend more.

As for the post SoB made that I have been notified of......fuck off. I try not to read your shit any more.