Tariffs?

[gil]

Back to tariffs ... I will assert again that trade is good. Barter between individuals, trade within a nation, trade across International borders. These are all essentially the same from an economic standpoint, and each kind of trade makes the participants better off.

So now (at least as I write this) the US has erected to highest barriers to international trade in our history. This will not make us wealthier. Our entire history has been based on freedom and capitalism. (Interestingly 1776 was the year for both the Declaration of Independence and the publication of "The Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith. 250th anniversary next year. Put it on your calendars.)

*If* these trade barriers stay in place (I emphasize "if" because Trumps's trade policy has been erratic to date) not every country will suffer. There will not be barriers between China and the EU countries, for example, and all the nations of the world other than the US will continue to benefit from trade.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

This guy nails it.

Have to get the illegals out of our houses.

https://x.com/RealLindellTV/status/1909 ... OSpdQ&s=19

Damn good clip.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Summing up my understanding:

The stock market was incredibly good for the first 3 years of Trumps first term, and that was due to his policies.

The stock market tanked because of the COVID thing, and that wasn't Trump's fault. Then the stock market was really good for the end of his term. Overall, the S&P 500 was up 65% during Trump's first term.

The stock market was incredibly good for Biden's term for the first year of Biden's term, then bad in 2022 due to his policies (that resulted in world-wide inflation), then incredibly good for the last two years. Overall, the S&P 500 was up 55% during Biden's term.

However, the Biden stock market gain was an illusion, because we all know that the economy was terrible.

The stock market was steady after Trump took office for his second term, then started going down as his tariff plans became clear. This is across the board, including the largest public companies (Dow Jones Industrial Average) and the broader market indexes (e.g., Russell 2000). But this doesn't matter because the economy is already better than it was in the Biden years, and stock market doesn't measure the economy very well, and even if it did, it doesn't matter.

Have I got this right?

I've been hearing about the 'inflated' stock market going all the way back to Bush Jr. That it's being propped up with government spending and needs to fall to create a better economy for all.

[gil]

That's the way the stock market should be played.... buy low sell high. It sounds like you were wise in your trading.

As for who this is hurting.....
The RICH. The meager few hundred or thousand here or there for those day traders (that don't have a lot of money) will be compensated when it recovers.

Why do you think the rich are getting hurt? If I'm rich I probably have the patience to ride out this downturn.

The rich are getting hurt more than the rest of us.
Why?

If you have $100,000 invested in the stock market and lose $2,000, that isn't too bad.
If some rich person has $1,000,000 invested in the stock market they lose $20,000 or more because they have a tendency of being in more volatile trades to try to earn more faster.

With this scenario, wouldn't you agree that although the same percentage, they are losing more money?

Yes, definitely. I thought you were saying that the rich were getting hurt and that the rest of us (as investors) shouldn't be too worried about it. I see what you mean.

I would argue, however, that a given percentage of loss is harder on the smaller investor (the loss of 2K hurts the amlklkmr investor more than the loss of 20K hurts the richer investor.)

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Back to tariffs ... I will assert again that trade is good. Barter between individuals, trade within a nation, trade across International borders. These are all essentially the same from an economic standpoint, and each kind of trade makes the participants better off.

So now (at least as I write this) the US has erected to highest barriers to international trade in our history. This will not make us wealthier. Our entire history has been based on freedom and capitalism. (Interestingly 1776 was the year for both the Declaration of Independence and the publication of "The Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith. 250th anniversary next year. Put it on your calendars.)

*If* these trade barriers stay in place (I emphasize "if" because Trumps's trade policy has been erratic to date) not every country will suffer. There will not be barriers between China and the EU countries, for example, and all the nations of the world other than the US will continue to benefit from trade.

How many times have you said "free trade" over the last month. It isn't very genuine of you to all of a sudden just call it "trade".

It's bothered me for decades that we (The United States) are the country that HAS TO PROTECT every other nation at our expense. Because of this, I have no issues with the tariffs because I think the countries that we protect OWE US.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Why do you think the rich are getting hurt? If I'm rich I probably have the patience to ride out this downturn.

The rich are getting hurt more than the rest of us.
Why?

If you have $100,000 invested in the stock market and lose $2,000, that isn't too bad.
If some rich person has $1,000,000 invested in the stock market they lose $20,000 or more because they have a tendency of being in more volatile trades to try to earn more faster.

With this scenario, wouldn't you agree that although the same percentage, they are losing more money?

Yes, definitely. I thought you were saying that the rich were getting hurt and that the rest of us (as investors) shouldn't be too worried about it. I see what you mean.

I would argue, however, that a given percentage of loss is harder on the smaller investor (the loss of 2K hurts the amlklkmr investor more than the loss of 20K hurts the richer investor.)

True, but the 'rich' are still losing more...... and that usually makes people happy.

[Michael K.]

We have farmers, we raise cows. So, if we buy from the US, how is that bad?

How much US beef comes from Australia?
AI Overview
In 2024, the United States imported $3 billion worth of Australian beef, with Australia's shipments to the US reaching nearly 40,000 tons worth $290 million in August, the most for any month since 2015.

Ridiculous. If all these tariffs do is generate more of our consumption of products to come from America? How the Fuck is that a bad thing?

[gil]

We have farmers, we raise cows. So, if we buy from the US, how is that bad?

How much US beef comes from Australia?
AI Overview
In 2024, the United States imported $3 billion worth of Australian beef, with Australia's shipments to the US reaching nearly 40,000 tons worth $290 million in August, the most for any month since 2015.

Ridiculous. If all these tariffs do is generate more of our consumption of products to come from America? How the Fuck is that a bad thing?

Only downside is higher costs, I assume, for US produce beef. Again, I assume the reason we are importing is that it's cheaper.

[gil]

Back to tariffs ... I will assert again that trade is good. Barter between individuals, trade within a nation, trade across International borders. These are all essentially the same from an economic standpoint, and each kind of trade makes the participants better off.

So now (at least as I write this) the US has erected to highest barriers to international trade in our history. This will not make us wealthier. Our entire history has been based on freedom and capitalism. (Interestingly 1776 was the year for both the Declaration of Independence and the publication of "The Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith. 250th anniversary next year. Put it on your calendars.)

*If* these trade barriers stay in place (I emphasize "if" because Trumps's trade policy has been erratic to date) not every country will suffer. There will not be barriers between China and the EU countries, for example, and all the nations of the world other than the US will continue to benefit from trade.

How many times have you said "free trade" over the last month. It isn't very genuine of you to all of a sudden just call it "trade".

It's bothered me for decades that we (The United States) are the country that HAS TO PROTECT every other nation at our expense. Because of this, I have no issues with the tariffs because I think the countries that we protect OWE US.

Just laziness on my part to drop the free. Same thing, if there isn't a tax/tariff on the exchange.

I think the protection thing is a separate issue, and I agree completely that wealthy countries should be paying more for their defense, not being subsidized by the U.S.

But the tariffs are NOT going accomplish this. The U.S. does not get money from other countries when it imposes a tariff (at least my understanding of how a tariff works - a tariff imposed by the U.S. government is a tax on U.S. consumers and business).

[Michael K.]

Only downside is higher costs, I assume, for US produce beef. Again, I assume the reason we are importing is that it's cheaper.

So, we should support foreign countries to save a little money? How is that working out right now? Seems to be not working out very well at all. Maybe if we are supporting our own economy, we can be taxed a little less? Shit, I'm not pretending to have the answer, but I heard someone complaining about what it was going to do to the price of cars. Once they told me the percentage I was like "you realize that is going to add like ten dollars a month to your payment right? The answer? Yeah, but still....

Come on. If it was Biden or Harris doing this we'd hear how great this is for America. Instead? They are too busy fighting us trying to do anything to improve what has been pretty bad for some time.