Trade Deadline untouchable prospects

[AlvinDavisFan21]

I guess I don't get this. Was it some kind of Herculean effort to build the Farm back up? Cal has been a Star, and Julio is serviceable....but what home grown position players do you guys watch play in a Mariner uniform and think "thank God we didn't trade that guy for a short term rental and a playoff run". Cal and Julio were up by the time we were supposed to be done rebuilding. No one since has made an impact and we are still how many years from our last Division title?

One playoff appearance in a decade and a half, and we are still hoping they hold on to prospects because one day they might lead us to the last WC spot and a few road playoff games? I don't get it. If the impact bat they can add is good enough, trade anyone that isn't currently on the Major League roster, and even some that are.

And this is the exact same stuff we were fed when the names were Justin Smoak, Dustin Ackley, Jesus Montero, etc.

Justin Smoak was acquired in the Cliff Lee deal and didn't amount to much. Dustin Ackley was drafted what #2 overall? Major bust. Montero (another bust) was acquired from the Yankees in that Michael Pineda deal if I am not mistaken. Have seen enough of those in my tenure as a Mariners fan and don't need any more.

[DavidGee24]

I guess I don't get this. Was it some kind of Herculean effort to build the Farm back up? Cal has been a Star, and Julio is serviceable....but what home grown position players do you guys watch play in a Mariner uniform and think "thank God we didn't trade that guy for a short term rental and a playoff run". Cal and Julio were up by the time we were supposed to be done rebuilding. No one since has made an impact and we are still how many years from our last Division title?

One playoff appearance in a decade and a half, and we are still hoping they hold on to prospects because one day they might lead us to the last WC spot and a few road playoff games? I don't get it. If the impact bat they can add is good enough, trade anyone that isn't currently on the Major League roster, and even some that are.

And this is the exact same stuff we were fed when the names were Justin Smoak, Dustin Ackley, Jesus Montero, etc.

Justin Smoak was acquired in the Cliff Lee deal and didn't amount to much. Dustin Ackley was drafted what #2 overall? Major bust. Montero (another bust) was acquired from the Yankees in that Michael Pineda deal if I am not mistaken. Have seen enough of those in my tenure as a Mariners fan and don't need any more.

The only time in franchise history that I can recall a youth movement working out very well was in the '80s. Problem was, the franchise didn't do the other things like make good trades and sign good free agents, and they made it worse by trading away a lot of that youth for rubbish such as Billy Swift/Mike Jackson/Dave Burba for Kevin Mitchell (who to be fair was only rubbish in a Mariner uniform).

[GL_Storm]

I guess I don't get this. Was it some kind of Herculean effort to build the Farm back up? Cal has been a Star, and Julio is serviceable....but what home grown position players do you guys watch play in a Mariner uniform and think "thank God we didn't trade that guy for a short term rental and a playoff run". Cal and Julio were up by the time we were supposed to be done rebuilding. No one since has made an impact and we are still how many years from our last Division title?

One playoff appearance in a decade and a half, and we are still hoping they hold on to prospects because one day they might lead us to the last WC spot and a few road playoff games? I don't get it. If the impact bat they can add is good enough, trade anyone that isn't currently on the Major League roster, and even some that are.

And this is the exact same stuff we were fed when the names were Justin Smoak, Dustin Ackley, Jesus Montero, etc.

Justin Smoak was acquired in the Cliff Lee deal and didn't amount to much. Dustin Ackley was drafted what #2 overall? Major bust. Montero (another bust) was acquired from the Yankees in that Michael Pineda deal if I am not mistaken. Have seen enough of those in my tenure as a Mariners fan and don't need any more.

What does this have to do with the question of untouchable prospects?

[Michael K.]

There isn't a single untouchable to me as long as the return is equitable. The way I see it if they don't win a World Series in the next 3 years Its not going to happen for at least 10. They aren't going to be able to afford to keep this pitching staff together once they reach FA and the Arms coming up behind them aren't of the same caliber. Even if these young "untouchables" pan out, by the time they get here and are producing at a high level, we won't have a pitching staff left to support them.

Exactly. Let's waste this pitching staff we have now because we want to win 54% of our games for the next decade, and make one more playoff appearance. It's fucked up. Do you know another benefit to bringing up your own players? They don't cost as much. This organization would rather save the money, brag about the farm, and spread bullshit about draft, develop and trade....then actually win playoff games. THAT is why these guys will be untouchable, not because they actually plan on winning playoff games.

[Vogelbomb]

We have 9 players in top 100. IMO Montas, Sloan, Arroyo should be untouchable maybe Emerson. We don’t have a LH power bat in system and Montas seems close, Sloan looks like an Ace in making and Arroyo just gets it done everywhere. That leaves 5-6 top 100 available

Pretty sure I started a thread on this very topic 2 weeks back.

I wouldn't trade Harry Ford, Montes, Arroyo, Celesten or Farmelo but that's just me. The latter two don't have peak value yet and the front 3 are pretty elite as far as prospects go. Montes is the power bat you're searching for on the trade market. Let the kid blossom and in 3-4 yrs he's Yordan Alvarez or Aaron Judge. Celesten can be Francisco Lindor and Arroyo is a little monster.

I know I'm different than most fans. I care more about the future than the present. I would never sell 7 yrs of control for some 1-2 yr rental who may only be a slight upgrade from what you currently have. The big hole right now is 3b and dh with way Polanco has fallen off. Yeah, if you can acquire a quality player who has shown consistency go ahead. Sloan + Locklear/Suisbel/Caron/Lao/Garcia and some combination therein should get it done. Sloan is a big-time pitching talent. I am OK with moving him because arms are risky and we're about to add Jamie Arnold (most likely) plus you have Cijtnje, Evans and Walter Ford coming on. Also, I'd like to move Brash back into the rotation where he belongs. More than enough arm options

[Vogelbomb]

There isn't a single untouchable to me as long as the return is equitable. The way I see it if they don't win a World Series in the next 3 years Its not going to happen for at least 10. They aren't going to be able to afford to keep this pitching staff together once they reach FA and the Arms coming up behind them aren't of the same caliber. Even if these young "untouchables" pan out, by the time they get here and are producing at a high level, we won't have a pitching staff left to support them.

Exactly. Let's waste this pitching staff we have now because we want to win 54% of our games for the next decade, and make one more playoff appearance. It's fucked up. Do you know another benefit to bringing up your own players? They don't cost as much. This organization would rather save the money, brag about the farm, and spread bullshit about draft, develop and trade....then actually win playoff games. THAT is why these guys will be untouchable, not because they actually plan on winning playoff games.

the pitching staff is wasting itself. We talk all day about it being elite and yet it can't shut down Texas, Minnesota or KC well enough to chalk sweeps. And secondly, the staff isn't going anywhere. Gilbert has 2 more yrs left, Kirby 3, Miller + Woo 5, Hancock 5, Brash 3, Evans 6. You're likely to add Arnold in the draft, you just drafted Cijntje and Sloan. The staff is going nowhere

[Michael K.]

the pitching staff is wasting itself.

Offense is
14th in Batting Average
8th in On Base
11th in SLG
10th in OPS

So, you may not be wrong. But it isn't good enough dude.

The pitching staff has been banged up, and is still
17th in Batting Average Against
17th in WHIP
15th in ERA

Again, who didn't understand their would be pitching regression? Not to mention, how much of that is due to injuries in key spots? Maybe if the offense was better than luke warm, we'd have been able to endure those pitching bumps and bruises better?

Obviously we could use a bullpen arm or two, but with any luck the starting staff gets better just by being healthier. Do you see the offense being good enough if they add no one? And if not, you are good with just contending for the last Wild Card spot for the rest of your life because we hold onto every prospect hoping we hit Gold?

Don't you think it is more likely they do that because they know it costs less in salary expense than they actually think it'll result in a World Series or two?

[D-train]

I guess I don't get this. Was it some kind of Herculean effort to build the Farm back up? Cal has been a Star, and Julio is serviceable....but what home grown position players do you guys watch play in a Mariner uniform and think "thank God we didn't trade that guy for a short term rental and a playoff run". Cal and Julio were up by the time we were supposed to be done rebuilding. No one since has made an impact and we are still how many years from our last Division title?

One playoff appearance in a decade and a half, and we are still hoping they hold on to prospects because one day they might lead us to the last WC spot and a few road playoff games? I don't get it. If the impact bat they can add is good enough, trade anyone that isn't currently on the Major League roster, and even some that are.

That's pretty much the point. There aren't any impact bats available

[D-train]

We have 9 players in top 100. IMO Montas, Sloan, Arroyo should be untouchable maybe Emerson. We don’t have a LH power bat in system and Montas seems close, Sloan looks like an Ace in making and Arroyo just gets it done everywhere. That leaves 5-6 top 100 available

Yes those are my three as well. I haven't been very impressed with our amphibious pitcher so far.

Me neither, his 3 MPH underwater fastball looks way too hittable.

(and yes, I know you did that on purpose)

Lol so did I

[D-train]

Happy to see suggestions for who we should trade Laz or Arroyo for. They both could be Sept call UPS.