Most underrated and overrated pitchers and position players in Mariners history

[D-train]

The Tino Trade might be the worst ever and let us know for the first time that the org was cheap AF.

[Donn Beach]

My most underrated player is Tino Martinez. In '95, he finally figured out ML pitching and almost doubled his RBI total to 115. He was the Mariner left handed power when Junior was out. He got good and the M's traded him to the Yankees for 2 of their massively overvalued prospects in Russ Davis and Sterling Hitchcock. Tino was really good the next 4 years for the Yanks.

My most overrated player is former #1 pick Al "Choo-Choo" Chambers. M's went cheap($60k) to get him. It was a relatively weak draft but they could have got Andy Van Slyke to roam CF for about the same money. He was a light hitting minor leaguer who got hot in AAA so the M's brought him up and he failed miserably to the tune of -.5 WAR fir his career He was out of baseball by 27.

My most under appreciated Mariner Minor Leaguer is David Arias aka David Ortz. As a 18-year-old in 1992, he hit about .260 with no power in the Rookie league. As a 19-year-old, he had a .960 OPS and moved up and had 1.75 more seasons of .900+ OPS before trading him to Minnesota for David Hollins who actually hit great, .916 OPS for 28games, for the M's in Sept but then was let go because he would make too much money. Ortiz was a great hitter who ended up pounding 500+home runs most of them for the Red Sox

Hollins was actually traded for a PTBNL which ended up being Ortiz. He wasn't underappreciated really but he was considered a ways from the majors. It was a good trade, the Mariners were in a playoff hunt and hollins played well for them. I don't think Hollins was let go, he was a rentaplayer.

his manager

"I'll never forget them asking me, 'You wouldn't trade Arias for anybody?'" Mike Goff recalled to Scott Lauber for ESPN in 2016. "I go, 'No, I wouldn't trade him for anybody.' That conversation ends, and we make the trade for Dave Hollins. We didn't know who the player to be named later was."

[bhofferb]

My most underrated player is Tino Martinez. In '95, he finally figured out ML pitching and almost doubled his RBI total to 115. He was the Mariner left handed power when Junior was out. He got good and the M's traded him to the Yankees for 2 of their massively overvalued prospects in Russ Davis and Sterling Hitchcock. Tino was really good the next 4 years for the Yanks.

My most overrated player is former #1 pick Al "Choo-Choo" Chambers. M's went cheap($60k) to get him. It was a relatively weak draft but they could have got Andy Van Slyke to roam CF for about the same money. He was a light hitting minor leaguer who got hot in AAA so the M's brought him up and he failed miserably to the tune of -.5 WAR fir his career He was out of baseball by 27.

My most under appreciated Mariner Minor Leaguer is David Arias aka David Ortz. As a 18-year-old in 1992, he hit about .260 with no power in the Rookie league. As a 19-year-old, he had a .960 OPS and moved up and had 1.75 more seasons of .900+ OPS before trading him to Minnesota for David Hollins who actually hit great, .916 OPS for 28games, for the M's in Sept but then was let go because he would make too much money. Ortiz was a great hitter who ended up pounding 500+home runs most of them for the Red Sox

Hollins was actually traded for a PTBNL which ended up being Ortiz. He wasn't underappreciated really but he was considered a ways from the majors. It was a good trade, the Mariners were in a playoff hunt and hollins played well for them. I don't think Hollins was let go, he was a rentaplayer.

his manager

"I'll never forget them asking me, 'You wouldn't trade Arias for anybody?'" Mike Goff recalled to Scott Lauber for ESPN in 2016. "I go, 'No, I wouldn't trade him for anybody.' That conversation ends, and we make the trade for Dave Hollins. We didn't know who the player to be named later was."

When I read this, my first thought was “How can you say this was a good trade” but after thinking about it, I have to agree. If you are going for it, no minor leaguer should be untouchable. Unfortunately Jerry and Co. are afraid to trade prospects lest they become stars for other teams. Probably every team has traded a future Hall of Famer at some point, so the fear of doing so shouldn’t be that great. And let’s face it, at some point in their minor leaguer should careers, both Jarred Kelenic and Dustin Ackley were probably deemed untouchable since they were sure to be stars…

[Donn Beach]

My most underrated player is Tino Martinez. In '95, he finally figured out ML pitching and almost doubled his RBI total to 115. He was the Mariner left handed power when Junior was out. He got good and the M's traded him to the Yankees for 2 of their massively overvalued prospects in Russ Davis and Sterling Hitchcock. Tino was really good the next 4 years for the Yanks.

My most overrated player is former #1 pick Al "Choo-Choo" Chambers. M's went cheap($60k) to get him. It was a relatively weak draft but they could have got Andy Van Slyke to roam CF for about the same money. He was a light hitting minor leaguer who got hot in AAA so the M's brought him up and he failed miserably to the tune of -.5 WAR fir his career He was out of baseball by 27.

My most under appreciated Mariner Minor Leaguer is David Arias aka David Ortz. As a 18-year-old in 1992, he hit about .260 with no power in the Rookie league. As a 19-year-old, he had a .960 OPS and moved up and had 1.75 more seasons of .900+ OPS before trading him to Minnesota for David Hollins who actually hit great, .916 OPS for 28games, for the M's in Sept but then was let go because he would make too much money. Ortiz was a great hitter who ended up pounding 500+home runs most of them for the Red Sox

Hollins was actually traded for a PTBNL which ended up being Ortiz. He wasn't underappreciated really but he was considered a ways from the majors. It was a good trade, the Mariners were in a playoff hunt and hollins played well for them. I don't think Hollins was let go, he was a rentaplayer.

his manager

"I'll never forget them asking me, 'You wouldn't trade Arias for anybody?'" Mike Goff recalled to Scott Lauber for ESPN in 2016. "I go, 'No, I wouldn't trade him for anybody.' That conversation ends, and we make the trade for Dave Hollins. We didn't know who the player to be named later was."

When I read this, my first thought was “How can you say this was a good trade” but after thinking about it, I have to agree. If you are going for it, no minor leaguer should be untouchable. Unfortunately Jerry and Co. are afraid to trade prospects lest they become stars for other teams. Probably every team has traded a future Hall of Famer at some point, so the fear of doing so shouldn’t be that great. And let’s face it, at some point in their minor leaguer should careers, both Jarred Kelenic and Dustin Ackley were probably deemed untouchable since they were sure to be stars…

Yeah, Locklear eventually goes to the HOF do you second guess trading him for Suarez? Seems to me there's a heck of a lot of revisionism with Ortiz and the mariners trading him. It was the twins that later actually released him, that's how he ended up a Red Sox. The Mariners where in a legit playoff hunt and who was it? The 3rd baseman at the time, broke his leg? They needed a 3rd baseman and went and got one. It was Bill James working for the sox that targeted Oritz after his release. And he went like immediately on their ML roster i believe

[Captain 97]

He never said 54% was the goal for an individual season or that it would be a good enough winning % to make the playoffs. It was about having a 54% over an extended period of time so it could mean 48% one season and 60% the next and so on. I think it's a stupid goal because it was an attempt to take the focus off the near term and any efforts being made to immediately improve the team.

The M's had literally just won 54 % of their games when he made the comment and then he followed it up by saying "We're actually doing the fans a favor". It was clear he trying to justify the performance and make the case that he the season was a success.

He could have just said something like...
"we are disappointing we didn't quite get where we wanted but we think we are on the right track and we are going to continue trying to improve the ball club".

Instead he decided to try and show everybody how smart he was and insult the intelligence of the fanbase at the same time.

[Donn Beach]

He never said 54% was the goal for an individual season or that it would be a good enough winning % to make the playoffs. It was about having a 54% over an extended period of time so it could mean 48% one season and 60% the next and so on. I think it's a stupid goal because it was an attempt to take the focus off the near term and any efforts being made to immediately improve the team.

The M's had literally just won 54 % of their games when he made the comment and then he followed it up by saying "We're actually doing the fans a favor". It was clear he trying to justify the performance and make the case that he the season was a success.

He could have just said something like...
"we are disappointing we didn't quite get where we wanted but we think we are on the right track and we are going to continue trying to improve the ball club".

Instead he decided to try and show everybody how smart he was and insult the intelligence of the fanbase at the same time.

Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate really. It wasn't a goal or process, it was what he felt was a clever analysis of past performance. It's funny he had it available. I'm guessing someone, his staff had showed it to him

[Seattle or Bust]

This guy had an ERA near 5.00 in AA.

They better hammer him.

[Donn Beach]

more Ortiz...

He shot through the Twins' system as a 21-year-old in 1997, hitting .317 with 31 homers across three levels of the minors. It earned him a ticket to The Show for his major league debut on September 2, 1997, less than a year after he officially landed in the Minnesota organization.

and December 2002 the twins release him, that to me seems the deepfelt ortiz regret deal seems to me