Postmortem: Sea v Lambs - The One That Got Away

auroraave
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Re: Postmortem: Sea v Lambs - The One That Got Away

Post by auroraave » Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:23 pm

trharder wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 3:00 am
Most games, Walker is better, but there's been a couple games where Charb is the hot hand and they'll flip
to Walker for no reason. I'd like to see them stick with the guy who's hot for that given game.
Even though Walker is quicker, he sometimes is indecisive and misses the opportunity, where Charb, while
slower, sometimes makes the correct cut like it's drawn up and gets the yards.
And why does Walker always run out of bounds?
^^^^ This. They are complimentary options. What is ALWAYS lost on here is that opposing teams have defensive coordinators. They watch tape on Seattle. They track their tendancies. Seattle knows this. They have to use personnel in ways the defense isn't expecting, counter to their tendancies. The RB group is a perfect example. Different backs will make defenses defend them differently with different looks - based on tendancies. you can exploit that. Seattle also has a strong RB room. Why would you NOT spread it around? Not only does more carries spread around make the number 3 back more experienced and ready should your 1 or 2 go down, it takes hits off of those backs. "Stats" and PFF don't take these subtle nuances into consideration. Walker runs out of bounds so he can get to his phone faster and check his insta feed, is what I am hearing. :lol:

auroraave
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Re: Postmortem: Sea v Lambs - The One That Got Away

Post by auroraave » Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:35 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Thu Nov 20, 2025 6:20 pm
auroraave wrote:
Thu Nov 20, 2025 5:05 pm
Remember when Penny "averaged' 6 yards a carry? Play that out - if he really 'ran for six yards' ever time he carried the ball - all you would ever do his hand him the ball - right? See, that's how 'stats' work. Now imagine taking your 'statistical cues" from the morons at PFF - a money making enterprise who is under ZERO pressure to be accurate. :lol: :lol: :lol:
To suggest that PFF isn't a useful tool for those that don't have the time to review video from games let alone watch them all is unreasonable. And there's a reason why all 32 NFL teams pay to get their advanced analytical tools. Yes, it's more valuable to use your own judgment in evaluating players provided you have sufficient knowledge of the game and the time to do so, but most people don't. At the very least it gives us one more thing to discuss.
How do you know teams subscribe to PFF? I suppose it could ben true. Anything to crunch number, but are you suggesting that NFL teams make personnel decisions based on what PFF says? You're joking, right? Teams LITERALLY go through tape on Mondays to see what's up - THAT'S how they 'grade' the performances. If a coach admitted to using PFF - which is laughably flawed - to make decisions - they would be fired on the spot. Or they would be called the Cleveland Browns. Zero chance top teams are relying on PFF to make decisions. "I didn't have time to watch the tape" does not validate PFF on any level whatsoever. That's weak position. Imagine McVey saying that. I've said it before - PFF is a business - absolutely no responsibility to be accurate - it is used by lazy journalists to 'support their hot take' of the day, and anyone else using it ONLY uses it if it backs whatever narrative they are pushing. That. Is. It. It would be interesting to see someone on the PFF team break down film, maybe run it against an NFL coach's version of analysis, see if they are close.

Imagine if you had to put PFF on the witness stand in court - it would be discredited so fast the jury would be laughing. But, by all means, trot it out. I am sure it gets things right - but it is what I posted above - a crutch only used if it supports a position. PLease don't tell me it's anything else. Maybe I am wrong about them, but I just consider everything these days a fucking scam :lol:

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Re: Postmortem: Sea v Lambs - The One That Got Away

Post by D-train » Fri Nov 21, 2025 5:12 pm

Great news on Zabel. Guessing they will sit him vs. the Titans but he should be back TG weekend I imagine.
Zabel back to practice
Could rookie left guard Grey Zabel be on the verge of playing Sunday against the Titans after appearing to suffer a possibly significant knee injury last week?

It seems possible after Zabel was a limited participant in practice Thursday. Zabel sat out the first practice of the week Wednesday, but was able to get back on the field for some work a day later.

“He’s tough. You see him on the sideline after the game, you see the look in his eye, you ask him how he’s doing and you can just tell the way he looks at you, way he talks to you that he’s going to get back as soon as he can,” Kubiak said. “So that’s been something really impressive from him all along and obviously something that’s been developing into him at a very young age. And we’re really lucky to have that on our offense.”
dt

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Re: Postmortem: Sea v Lambs - The One That Got Away

Post by D-train » Fri Nov 21, 2025 5:17 pm

auroraave wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:35 pm
Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Thu Nov 20, 2025 6:20 pm
auroraave wrote:
Thu Nov 20, 2025 5:05 pm
Remember when Penny "averaged' 6 yards a carry? Play that out - if he really 'ran for six yards' ever time he carried the ball - all you would ever do his hand him the ball - right? See, that's how 'stats' work. Now imagine taking your 'statistical cues" from the morons at PFF - a money making enterprise who is under ZERO pressure to be accurate. :lol: :lol: :lol:
To suggest that PFF isn't a useful tool for those that don't have the time to review video from games let alone watch them all is unreasonable. And there's a reason why all 32 NFL teams pay to get their advanced analytical tools. Yes, it's more valuable to use your own judgment in evaluating players provided you have sufficient knowledge of the game and the time to do so, but most people don't. At the very least it gives us one more thing to discuss.
How do you know teams subscribe to PFF? I suppose it could ben true. Anything to crunch number, but are you suggesting that NFL teams make personnel decisions based on what PFF says? You're joking, right? Teams LITERALLY go through tape on Mondays to see what's up - THAT'S how they 'grade' the performances. If a coach admitted to using PFF - which is laughably flawed - to make decisions - they would be fired on the spot. Or they would be called the Cleveland Browns. Zero chance top teams are relying on PFF to make decisions. "I didn't have time to watch the tape" does not validate PFF on any level whatsoever. That's weak position. Imagine McVey saying that. I've said it before - PFF is a business - absolutely no responsibility to be accurate - it is used by lazy journalists to 'support their hot take' of the day, and anyone else using it ONLY uses it if it backs whatever narrative they are pushing. That. Is. It. It would be interesting to see someone on the PFF team break down film, maybe run it against an NFL coach's version of analysis, see if they are close.

Imagine if you had to put PFF on the witness stand in court - it would be discredited so fast the jury would be laughing. But, by all means, trot it out. I am sure it gets things right - but it is what I posted above - a crutch only used if it supports a position. PLease don't tell me it's anything else. Maybe I am wrong about them, but I just consider everything these days a fucking scam :lol:
Screenshot 2025-11-21 091651.png
Screenshot 2025-11-21 091651.png (66.21 KiB) Viewed 54 times
dt

Michael K.
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Re: Postmortem: Sea v Lambs - The One That Got Away

Post by Michael K. » Fri Nov 21, 2025 5:34 pm

auroraave wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:23 pm
trharder wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 3:00 am
Most games, Walker is better, but there's been a couple games where Charb is the hot hand and they'll flip
to Walker for no reason. I'd like to see them stick with the guy who's hot for that given game.
Even though Walker is quicker, he sometimes is indecisive and misses the opportunity, where Charb, while
slower, sometimes makes the correct cut like it's drawn up and gets the yards.
And why does Walker always run out of bounds?
^^^^ This. They are complimentary options. What is ALWAYS lost on here is that opposing teams have defensive coordinators. They watch tape on Seattle. They track their tendancies. Seattle knows this. They have to use personnel in ways the defense isn't expecting, counter to their tendancies. The RB group is a perfect example. Different backs will make defenses defend them differently with different looks - based on tendancies. you can exploit that. Seattle also has a strong RB room. Why would you NOT spread it around? Not only does more carries spread around make the number 3 back more experienced and ready should your 1 or 2 go down, it takes hits off of those backs. "Stats" and PFF don't take these subtle nuances into consideration. Walker runs out of bounds so he can get to his phone faster and check his insta feed, is what I am hearing. :lol:
Point out where anyone has an issue with spreading it around? If you watched the games, but I realize you always say you don't, I think you would agree that a fifty fifty split is fucking stupid. Even the coaches are admitting that now.
The Seattle Seahawks have split the carries pretty evenly this season between running backs Kenneth Walker III and Zach Charbonnet.

Daniel Jeremiah: Seahawks were ‘clearly the better team’ vs Rams

But on Monday, head coach Mike Macdonald hinted that Walker might get a larger share of the workload moving forward.

“I think Ken’s showing that he’s earning more opportunities to get the ball,” Macdonald said during his weekly day-after-game media session.


Through 10 games, Walker has clearly been the more productive and explosive back.

Walker has rushed for 606 yards on 136 carries for an average of 4.5 yards per attempt. He’s showcased his speed and elusiveness with 19 runs of 10-plus yards. And in the receiving game, he’s added 15 catches for 127 yards.

Charbonnet, meanwhile, has rushed for 350 yards on 105 carries for a 3.3-yard average. He has just four runs of 10-plus yards. And as a pass catcher, he has 10 receptions for 67 yards.

Walker was again the better back on Sunday, accounting for 111 yards from scrimmage in Seattle’s 21-19 loss to the Los Angeles Rams. He ran for 67 yards and a TD on 16 carries, while adding three catches for 44 yards.

Charbonnet had just 37 yards on 11 carries against the Rams, along with two catches for 10 yards. Third-string back George Holani also had two carries for 6 yards.
They fucked up, and they know it. Splitting carries is worthless if one back is drastically less productive than the other. You argue shit that isn't evern said. No one said don't spread it around. No one said only put Walker in when they run the ball so the other team knows it's coming. No one said any of the Strawman bullshit you are constantly spewing. But you are one of a select few that seem to actually believe a fifty fifty split between these two backs makes sense. It absolutely does not. And has been a story line for some time, and has amped up big time this week because they lost a game where Charbo looked like a fucking slug in his 13 fucking touches while Walker gained over 100 on his 19 touches. Basically fifty fifty, for no fucking reason other than that is what they did. No hot hand, it was just Charbo's turn so let's see if we can go three and out. It was dumb, they know it, we know it, you are the only one that doesn't, so you invent shit to argue about.

Even out touching him 19 to 13 Sunday isn't enough. Charbo is the back up, play him like one.

Charbo has played in 9 games and has 105 carries. Almost 12 per game.
Walker has played in 10 games and has 136 carries. 13.6 per game. Yep, those two deserve fifty fifty split in carries. And that is AFTER the Rams game, and I shutter to know what it would be if Charbo hadn't missed a game. I'm sure he would have eaten into Walker's carries that game. It's ridiculous...and excusing it is silly....when even the coaching staff is admitting it can't continue.

auroraave
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Re: Postmortem: Sea v Lambs - The One That Got Away

Post by auroraave » Fri Nov 21, 2025 6:14 pm

D-train wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 5:17 pm
auroraave wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:35 pm
Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Thu Nov 20, 2025 6:20 pm


To suggest that PFF isn't a useful tool for those that don't have the time to review video from games let alone watch them all is unreasonable. And there's a reason why all 32 NFL teams pay to get their advanced analytical tools. Yes, it's more valuable to use your own judgment in evaluating players provided you have sufficient knowledge of the game and the time to do so, but most people don't. At the very least it gives us one more thing to discuss.
How do you know teams subscribe to PFF? I suppose it could ben true. Anything to crunch number, but are you suggesting that NFL teams make personnel decisions based on what PFF says? You're joking, right? Teams LITERALLY go through tape on Mondays to see what's up - THAT'S how they 'grade' the performances. If a coach admitted to using PFF - which is laughably flawed - to make decisions - they would be fired on the spot. Or they would be called the Cleveland Browns. Zero chance top teams are relying on PFF to make decisions. "I didn't have time to watch the tape" does not validate PFF on any level whatsoever. That's weak position. Imagine McVey saying that. I've said it before - PFF is a business - absolutely no responsibility to be accurate - it is used by lazy journalists to 'support their hot take' of the day, and anyone else using it ONLY uses it if it backs whatever narrative they are pushing. That. Is. It. It would be interesting to see someone on the PFF team break down film, maybe run it against an NFL coach's version of analysis, see if they are close.

Imagine if you had to put PFF on the witness stand in court - it would be discredited so fast the jury would be laughing. But, by all means, trot it out. I am sure it gets things right - but it is what I posted above - a crutch only used if it supports a position. PLease don't tell me it's anything else. Maybe I am wrong about them, but I just consider everything these days a fucking scam :lol:
Screenshot 2025-11-21 091651.png
Holy shit - $150k? I'm in the wrong business! I wonder who owns PFF. I am shocked the NFL would pay that kind of money. I still thihnk it's a scam. :lol:

auroraave
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Re: Postmortem: Sea v Lambs - The One That Got Away

Post by auroraave » Fri Nov 21, 2025 6:33 pm

Michael K. wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 5:34 pm
auroraave wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:23 pm
trharder wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 3:00 am
Most games, Walker is better, but there's been a couple games where Charb is the hot hand and they'll flip
to Walker for no reason. I'd like to see them stick with the guy who's hot for that given game.
Even though Walker is quicker, he sometimes is indecisive and misses the opportunity, where Charb, while
slower, sometimes makes the correct cut like it's drawn up and gets the yards.
And why does Walker always run out of bounds?
^^^^ This. They are complimentary options. What is ALWAYS lost on here is that opposing teams have defensive coordinators. They watch tape on Seattle. They track their tendancies. Seattle knows this. They have to use personnel in ways the defense isn't expecting, counter to their tendancies. The RB group is a perfect example. Different backs will make defenses defend them differently with different looks - based on tendancies. you can exploit that. Seattle also has a strong RB room. Why would you NOT spread it around? Not only does more carries spread around make the number 3 back more experienced and ready should your 1 or 2 go down, it takes hits off of those backs. "Stats" and PFF don't take these subtle nuances into consideration. Walker runs out of bounds so he can get to his phone faster and check his insta feed, is what I am hearing. :lol:
Point out where anyone has an issue with spreading it around? If you watched the games, but I realize you always say you don't, I think you would agree that a fifty fifty split is fucking stupid. Even the coaches are admitting that now.
The Seattle Seahawks have split the carries pretty evenly this season between running backs Kenneth Walker III and Zach Charbonnet.

Daniel Jeremiah: Seahawks were ‘clearly the better team’ vs Rams

But on Monday, head coach Mike Macdonald hinted that Walker might get a larger share of the workload moving forward.

“I think Ken’s showing that he’s earning more opportunities to get the ball,” Macdonald said during his weekly day-after-game media session.


Through 10 games, Walker has clearly been the more productive and explosive back.

Walker has rushed for 606 yards on 136 carries for an average of 4.5 yards per attempt. He’s showcased his speed and elusiveness with 19 runs of 10-plus yards. And in the receiving game, he’s added 15 catches for 127 yards.

Charbonnet, meanwhile, has rushed for 350 yards on 105 carries for a 3.3-yard average. He has just four runs of 10-plus yards. And as a pass catcher, he has 10 receptions for 67 yards.

Walker was again the better back on Sunday, accounting for 111 yards from scrimmage in Seattle’s 21-19 loss to the Los Angeles Rams. He ran for 67 yards and a TD on 16 carries, while adding three catches for 44 yards.

Charbonnet had just 37 yards on 11 carries against the Rams, along with two catches for 10 yards. Third-string back George Holani also had two carries for 6 yards.
They fucked up, and they know it. Splitting carries is worthless if one back is drastically less productive than the other. You argue shit that isn't evern said. No one said don't spread it around. No one said only put Walker in when they run the ball so the other team knows it's coming. No one said any of the Strawman bullshit you are constantly spewing. But you are one of a select few that seem to actually believe a fifty fifty split between these two backs makes sense. It absolutely does not. And has been a story line for some time, and has amped up big time this week because they lost a game where Charbo looked like a fucking slug in his 13 fucking touches while Walker gained over 100 on his 19 touches. Basically fifty fifty, for no fucking reason other than that is what they did. No hot hand, it was just Charbo's turn so let's see if we can go three and out. It was dumb, they know it, we know it, you are the only one that doesn't, so you invent shit to argue about.

Even out touching him 19 to 13 Sunday isn't enough. Charbo is the back up, play him like one.

Charbo has played in 9 games and has 105 carries. Almost 12 per game.
Walker has played in 10 games and has 136 carries. 13.6 per game. Yep, those two deserve fifty fifty split in carries. And that is AFTER the Rams game, and I shutter to know what it would be if Charbo hadn't missed a game. I'm sure he would have eaten into Walker's carries that game. It's ridiculous...and excusing it is silly....when even the coaching staff is admitting it can't continue.

lol - this is priceless. Look, I know you're 'mad' at me because I point out that you lie and wildly exaggerate, while making up arguments against things no one ever said - so you're gonna be all antagonistic. I get it. It's funny - and predictable. I generally don't respond to you because you're always emotional and pissed off and, of course, you can't have a convo with someone who lies, exaggerates and just makes things up.

I responded to that dude - agreeing that it makes sense to split carries - I have literally no idea where I was arguing that someone suggested they don't - you are LITERALLY manufacturing that out of left field as some kind of failed 'gotcha' by suggesting I am arguing something no one said - which I quite clearly wasn't - but which you do consistantly. Pot meet kettle. You know, you accusing others of doing what YOU do regularly. :lol:

Cue blathering, pissed off, nonsensical response in 3, 2, 1...

Michael K.
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Re: Postmortem: Sea v Lambs - The One That Got Away

Post by Michael K. » Fri Nov 21, 2025 6:45 pm

I said it's ridiculous that they split carries fifty fifty. And I used stats like per carry average to back my point. Your response?
auroraave wrote:
Thu Nov 20, 2025 5:05 pm
There are a number of reasons you split carries. Different backs have different skill sets. CHarbs is the better blocker and more versatile as a receiver. You have to use different packages to confuse defenses - to keep them honest. If walker gets 90 percent of the runs - then the defensive coordinator simply stacks the line every time he is in -= you are showing your hand by being predicatable.

I have said it a thousand times on here - you cannot cut and paste stats as you position - there is CONTEXT to be considered.


Remember when Penny "averaged' 6 yards a carry? Play that out - if he really 'ran for six yards' ever time he carried the ball - all you would ever do his hand him the ball - right? See, that's how 'stats' work. Now imagine taking your 'statistical cues" from the morons at PFF - a money making enterprise who is under ZERO pressure to be accurate. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stop quoting stats - understand strategy. Utterly maddening. Instead of thinking it thrugh, just "cutting and pasting stats" as my "proof". Again, I refer you to the Penny anomoly. Everyn single thing that will ever happen can be made into a statistic - they are mostly meaningless talking points an ill-equipped media and talking heads use so people think they are smart. They are not smart - they are fucking lazy.

You8 need zero stats to know he threw 4 picks. what you do need is to understand the route tree and concepts, the blocking scheme, the accuracy of the route running, the quality of the blocking, the defensive scheme and assignments. Didn't Arroyo run a bad route resulting in a pic? Where's the corrolating "stat" that explains that? :lol:

This obsession with dropping stats into conversations. It's weak.
First off, he has done nothing to show he is a better pass catcher. Not sure how you see that besided the fact that Pete, in his infinite wisdom, decided the slow plodder was a third down back. I responded to each of your points already, your next comment was.....
auroraave wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:23 pm

^^^^ This. They are complimentary options. What is ALWAYS lost on here is that opposing teams have defensive coordinators. They watch tape on Seattle. They track their tendancies. Seattle knows this. They have to use personnel in ways the defense isn't expecting, counter to their tendancies. The RB group is a perfect example. Different backs will make defenses defend them differently with different looks - based on tendancies. you can exploit that. Seattle also has a strong RB room. Why would you NOT spread it around? Not only does more carries spread around make the number 3 back more experienced and ready should your 1 or 2 go down, it takes hits off of those backs. "Stats" and PFF don't take these subtle nuances into consideration. Walker runs out of bounds so he can get to his phone faster and check his insta feed, is what I am hearing. :lol:
NON of ANYTHING you said defends why they are sharing carries basically fifty fifty. Nope, you attack points not even made. Charbo is a better blocker, Darnold threw 4 picks. Your shit doesn't even make sense.

There is ZERO reason they share carries equally. No one but you is even arguing that, so you double down.

Again, point out where anyone said Charbo should never be on the field. Spreading it around? One back averages under 3.5 per carry and the other 4.5....but by all means, share carries equally! Explain why you defend that, but please provide something besides the usual gibberish for why you defend it. And again, unless you changed your tune and started watching games again, how the fuck would you know anyway? Obviously can't look at stats or PFF to make your decision. So?

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Re: Postmortem: Sea v Lambs - The One That Got Away

Post by douche » Fri Nov 21, 2025 7:02 pm

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/new ... 0da6e183b0

"Pro Football Focus says it provides custom data to all 32 NFL teams as well as more than 100 college football programs.

Originally founded in the United Kingdom, Pro Football Focus is now owned by NBC color commentator Cris Collinsworth. The site isn't owned by NBC, but Collinsworth, a longtime staple of the "Sunday Night Football" broadcast booth, is the common thread between NBC and PFF.

Collinsworth has heard criticism over the years for PFF's ratings, which comes as no surprise. When rankings and ratings are subjective in any way, it's impossible to avoid disagreements. Still, the rankings have become a staple of NBC broadcasts as analytics become more mainstream in the NFL."

Now that's not to say that PFF is the deciding factor for NFL teams, but apparently it does play a part. And Collinsworth... well, I have no interest in listening to his ass-kissing rhetoric.

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Re: Postmortem: Sea v Lambs - The One That Got Away

Post by D-train » Fri Nov 21, 2025 8:18 pm

auroraave wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 6:14 pm
D-train wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 5:17 pm
auroraave wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:35 pm


How do you know teams subscribe to PFF? I suppose it could ben true. Anything to crunch number, but are you suggesting that NFL teams make personnel decisions based on what PFF says? You're joking, right? Teams LITERALLY go through tape on Mondays to see what's up - THAT'S how they 'grade' the performances. If a coach admitted to using PFF - which is laughably flawed - to make decisions - they would be fired on the spot. Or they would be called the Cleveland Browns. Zero chance top teams are relying on PFF to make decisions. "I didn't have time to watch the tape" does not validate PFF on any level whatsoever. That's weak position. Imagine McVey saying that. I've said it before - PFF is a business - absolutely no responsibility to be accurate - it is used by lazy journalists to 'support their hot take' of the day, and anyone else using it ONLY uses it if it backs whatever narrative they are pushing. That. Is. It. It would be interesting to see someone on the PFF team break down film, maybe run it against an NFL coach's version of analysis, see if they are close.

Imagine if you had to put PFF on the witness stand in court - it would be discredited so fast the jury would be laughing. But, by all means, trot it out. I am sure it gets things right - but it is what I posted above - a crutch only used if it supports a position. PLease don't tell me it's anything else. Maybe I am wrong about them, but I just consider everything these days a fucking scam :lol:
Screenshot 2025-11-21 091651.png
Holy shit - $150k? I'm in the wrong business! I wonder who owns PFF. I am shocked the NFL would pay that kind of money. I still thihnk it's a scam. :lol:
Have you not heard of google.com or AI lol
Cris Collinsworth, a former NFL player and current sportscaster, is the majority owner and CEO of Pro Football Focus (PFF). He acquired the football analytics company in 2015, and a private equity firm, Silver Lake, purchased a minority stake in 2021. The original founder, Neil Hornsby, started PFF as a hobby in 2006 before Collinsworth acquired it.
Majority owner: Cris Collinsworth
dt

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