Who had the best plan from the mariners podsters

[D-train]

Sure, that's possible.

But I doubt they're trading Skubal solely for that pitcher which is why Kirby doesn't make sense.

I think Miller is far more realistic in that scenario because teams almost always use rentals like this to acquire a bevy of players. Acquiring Kirby and basically nothing else is lateral at best. Acquiring multiple top prospects alongside a pitcher gives them the chance to hit on multiple guys rather than just accepting a worse pitcher with a little more control.

I'm under no illusion that Castillo and Kirby's values are equitable... I'm saying them taking on Castillo for a couple years means they're going to take on a little bit of money... get similar production... and they'll be able to really build their farm out in the process. That seems to be the route most teams take when trading players like Skubal.

They are getting 3x the control with Kirby not a little more. You are describing what Skenes trade would look. Tigers almost made the ALCS, they aren't going to be doing a rebuilt starting with our prospects.

When has a player of Skubal's caliber as a 1-year rental been traded from a contender and it wasn't for prospects?

The most recent trade I can think of is Mookie Betts being traded from Boston to Los Angeles. I'm fairly certain Boston is trying to be a contender every year. They moved Betts for multiple top 100 prospects.

The Mariners did the same when they traded Johnson and Griffey for prospects, they were still very much set on contending.

I also think the Tigers are very much following the development model after experiencing Miguel Cabrera in his 40's. I think they want to keep payroll low, trade players as they get expensive, and replenish the roster with prospects.

Johnson was for prospects but Mike Cameron Debuted in 1995 and had a .825 OPS and 5.5 bWAR in 1999. It was actually a very bad trade for the Reds. Griffey put up 13 WAR and Cameron put up 35 WAR post trade. btw Why in the hell did we not resign Cameron after he put of 18 WAR in four seasons for us?????????

[D-train]

My God Cammy signed a two year deal for less than $12M with the Mets after putting up an average of 4.5 WAR with us. We deserved that playoff drought.

Screenshot 2025-11-23 172353.png (41.23 KiB) Viewed 88 times

[Seattle or Bust]

They are getting 3x the control with Kirby not a little more. You are describing what Skenes trade would look. Tigers almost made the ALCS, they aren't going to be doing a rebuilt starting with our prospects.

When has a player of Skubal's caliber as a 1-year rental been traded from a contender and it wasn't for prospects?

The most recent trade I can think of is Mookie Betts being traded from Boston to Los Angeles. I'm fairly certain Boston is trying to be a contender every year. They moved Betts for multiple top 100 prospects.

The Mariners did the same when they traded Johnson and Griffey for prospects, they were still very much set on contending.

I also think the Tigers are very much following the development model after experiencing Miguel Cabrera in his 40's. I think they want to keep payroll low, trade players as they get expensive, and replenish the roster with prospects.

Johnson was for prospects but Mike Cameron Debuted in 1995 and had a .825 OPS and 5.5 bWAR in 1999. It was actually a very bad trade for the Reds. Griffey put up 13 WAR and Cameron put up 35 WAR post trade. btw Why in the hell did we not resign Cameron after he put of 18 WAR in four seasons for us?????????

At the time, people wouldn't have considered it a bad trade for the Reds.

I'm just saying... a Kirby for Skubal trade would be the first of its kind. One that I don't think Detroit would want given their model and history of trades like this.

If it happens, I agree that they'll want a starter they can slot in to "replace" him... but they'll also want a few prospects attached to that player. I think Castillo could be enticing... but as I said, more realistically a player like Miller + a few guys.

And as I've always said, I don't think a trade for Skubal is realistic at all given the Mariners model.

[Seattle or Bust]

My God Cammy signed a two year deal for less than $12M with the Mets after putting up an average of 4.5 WAR with us. We deserved that playoff drought.

Screenshot 2025-11-23 172353.png

To the Mariners credit, Ibanez and Winn were better and healthier than Cammy was with the Mets. Jeremy Reed was also a top prospect in baseball at CF.

It was the 2004 M's infield that put up a combined 0.6 bWAR. Ouch.

[Donn Beach]

They are getting 3x the control with Kirby not a little more. You are describing what Skenes trade would look. Tigers almost made the ALCS, they aren't going to be doing a rebuilt starting with our prospects.

When has a player of Skubal's caliber as a 1-year rental been traded from a contender and it wasn't for prospects?

The most recent trade I can think of is Mookie Betts being traded from Boston to Los Angeles. I'm fairly certain Boston is trying to be a contender every year. They moved Betts for multiple top 100 prospects.

The Mariners did the same when they traded Johnson and Griffey for prospects, they were still very much set on contending.

I also think the Tigers are very much following the development model after experiencing Miguel Cabrera in his 40's. I think they want to keep payroll low, trade players as they get expensive, and replenish the roster with prospects.

Johnson was for prospects but Mike Cameron Debuted in 1995 and had a .825 OPS and 5.5 bWAR in 1999. It was actually a very bad trade for the Reds. Griffey put up 13 WAR and Cameron put up 35 WAR post trade. btw Why in the hell did we not resign Cameron after he put of 18 WAR in four seasons for us?????????

Huh...Cameron wanted to get the hell out of dodge, he openly complained about the stadium

[Donn Beach]

Oh... And bill bavasi... There's that.

AI Overview




Mike Cameron, a former Seattle Mariners center fielder, was known to have complained about the visibility and glare from the batter's eye in center field at Safeco Field (now T-Mobile Park) during day games.

Cameron's specific complaints included:
Glare and Visibility: He stated that "Before, we couldn't see at all," due to the glare, making hitting difficult.

Performance Disparity: His statistics supported this, as he hit significantly worse at Safeco Field (.222 average, 28 home runs) than in road games (.294 average, 57 home runs) during his time with the Mariners (through August 2003).

Slow Resolution: He expressed frustration that it took a long time for the organization to address the issue. The Mariners eventually installed a black honeycomb surface on the wall to try and deflect the glare, which Cameron noted made it "a little bit better now".

Additionally, some fans and sports analysts complained on Cameron's behalf that the Mariners' management, particularly General Manager Bill Bavasi, did not offer him a multi-year contract or even arbitration, which led to his departure, because Bavasi "knew nothing about how to evaluate baseball players and couldn't see past his strikeouts" and ignored Cameron's high performance metrics (WAR). Cameron later retired as a Mariner in 2012, expressing positive memories of his time with the team.

[D-train]

When has a player of Skubal's caliber as a 1-year rental been traded from a contender and it wasn't for prospects?

The most recent trade I can think of is Mookie Betts being traded from Boston to Los Angeles. I'm fairly certain Boston is trying to be a contender every year. They moved Betts for multiple top 100 prospects.

The Mariners did the same when they traded Johnson and Griffey for prospects, they were still very much set on contending.

I also think the Tigers are very much following the development model after experiencing Miguel Cabrera in his 40's. I think they want to keep payroll low, trade players as they get expensive, and replenish the roster with prospects.

Johnson was for prospects but Mike Cameron Debuted in 1995 and had a .825 OPS and 5.5 bWAR in 1999. It was actually a very bad trade for the Reds. Griffey put up 13 WAR and Cameron put up 35 WAR post trade. btw Why in the hell did we not resign Cameron after he put of 18 WAR in four seasons for us?????????

Huh...Cameron wanted to get the hell out of dodge, he openly complained about the stadium

I have no memory of that. He hit 87 HRs and had a .798 OPS during those seasons.

[Donn Beach]

In fact as I remember it. There was a lot of stuff swirling around about displeasure with Safeco. But he was the one actually being vocal about it. Really might not have been so much Cameron wanting out of town but that bridges had been burned. The mariners weren't bringing back a player that was openly critical of their brand new stadium

[Donn Beach]

Interesting that Castillo's no trade clause has expired, the things you can discover on the internet!

I knew that already. So you consider the guy that was the OD starter a year and a half ago the entire roster. Jerry has said many times he loves the rotation and wants to keep it together. I actually trust what he says because he does what he says. And his 1500 hours of PR training seems to be paying off.

The fact is the contract was written that way for a reason. This isnt about PR issues or really even this seasons payroll. It's about that contract, he wanted to be in position to be able to move it. And in terms of the roster I think this is what he would have been hoping for. He has developed lower cost depth where it could be possible.

Will he in fact do it, who knows. The odds are pretty slim probably with all the factors to take into account. But the fact is the biggest one has been eliminated, the no trade clause. Dipoto already admitted to considering offers for him last season, it only makes sense he'd be looking at them this season.

Dipoto has a history of unloading contracts. He did in fact address the issue of bringing Suarez back after unloading his. Posters seemed to feel he'd be sensitive about that PR

“You make decisions based on where you are,” Mariners president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto said on Thursday, shortly after the 3 p.m. PT Trade Deadline passed. “If we could have called and asked for a re-do ... that would have been great. But that's not how it works.”

“What we didn’t know the day we traded Geno to Arizona was that we were later going to be able to make a deal with the Braves that kind of answered our needs,” Dipoto said, citing another cost-cutting trade that sent Jarred Kelenic, Marco Gonzales and Evan White to Atlanta 11 days later, which saved nearly $25 million in payroll.

“If we'd known that we had that deal in our back pocket, we might have done something different. The November [2023] deal that sent Geno to Arizona, I told him that day -- and I think he'll verify it being true -- one of my least favorite trades we ever did.”

That comment I think speaks to an issue with off-season plans. Trades pretty much work in a vacuum. Like the locked on sports, they trade Castillo and then replace him with another trade. Pulling things like that off I think would be extremely difficult. If you decide to trade Castillo the decision would to have to stand on its own.

[Donn Beach]

I think their projected budgeting have a lot to do with it. If they feel optimistic about extending Kirby for instance they could be motivated to move Castillo's contract. They have to have some budgeting models. On the other hand, Castillo has value for them just like he would for a team trading for him. His dependability is valuable, his 180 innings, that goes beyond WAR