Who had the best plan from the mariners podsters

[Bil522]

Where has he changed the narrative? And what does Naylor have to do with it? He apologized for his poor communication of his strategy but I don't remember him rejecting it. Terms of Naylor, Dipoto wants to build competitive teams. But look at Dipotos entire body of work, when has ever really made a significant increase in talent over an off season? Go back to the first phase of attempting to make the playoffs. He took a. 500 team and after a hundred trades had created a. 500 team out of it. He's always worked at things incrementally

Signing Naylor, and his comments after IS changing the Narrative. That isn't draft/trade/develop. Naylor was a FA, and he could have easily sat back on this bullshit draft/trade/develop philosophy, told the world that Naylor was too expensive and they have to plan for the future. That is what he has done every off season, and not doing that is changing the narrative.

I am just going by what I view is his history and his comments, I don't see anything that changes things really. If anything seems to me his approach has been validated. Look at what he said this off season news conference, it was their intention was to focus on their FAs and adding prospects to the roster. You yourself have commented the plan will be Naylor, Polanco, Williamson and Young. I'm saying, the one thing I feel I can safely bet he's thinking about other than the Naylor and Polanco is moving that contract. I think it fits his MO.
I'm not criticizing him for it, I'm just looking at the evidence as I see it. He very well could be correct to focus on the length of the window. It could be they are in the WS three seasons from now instead of beginning a decline.

Polanco and Naylor are not the type of FAs they have signed in the past. I don't see how you don't see that. Again, if he was not changing his philosophy? Naylor would have been too expensive.

His credibility, what's his concern? He's going to get canned? Hes not listening to fans. The GM that listens to the fans ends up sitting with the fans. What happened last season? That wasn't enough screaming? Who's got the I told you so smirk on his face?. He's not tearing the team apart. Again, he's going to be able to claim its better. But at the same time I'm expecting there to be complaining about it. He's completely confident in his process. Whatever the complaints might be he's going to say, wait and see.

What happened last off season? They were not only not winning the division, but barely hanging on to the WC before he made two splash moves. They didn't trade away Gravy, they didn't sit back and sign one bullpen arm, this was even bigger than trading for Castillo. They added not one but two middle of the order bats that were having very good seasons. NOt a bargain basement guy they hoped would revert to form. Do you think if his bullshit off season plan had worked out they would have gone and done that?

You can make an arguement for a dramatic move and maybe he will pull some off. In terms of what he's thinking we haven't been here before so who knows. But in terms of how he's always operated as far as I can tell I'd expect another season of incremental tinkering to add talent and a focus on the overall window

Adding Naylor wasn't incremental tinkering. Sorry, that is the point you are missing. If he does nothing else? I think he looks like an idiot for even adding Naylor. There has to be something else he is working on. I realize Naylor was here, but he was a Free Agent. This is a very different move for THIS Front Office. It wasn't a trade, it wasn't a bargain basement retread, it was a guy that was in demand on the open market.

The one argument I would make is this, being 2 innings from the World Series didn't hurt. I think we lost out on potential FAs in the past because no one wanted to come here....so Jerry masked the real flaw by saying their plan isn't to spend that way, defer salary for signing their own, draft, develop and trade....54%, yada yada. It might have been him covering up the fact that this was an organization looked at as one that doesn't care about winning, so why go there? Trading for Geno and Josh might have changed that narrative.

It really is not changing the narrative. The narrative is the same as it was when they got Castillo at the trading deadline. They went "all in" when they saw what kind of person he was and signed him to an extension. Same basic play with Naylor. Changing the narrative will be to really spend some money. Spend $10-$15 mill/season on a reliever. Spend up to $25mill/year getting a bat that is not Polo or Geno. Now that will change the narrative and take it to a place that it has never been before.

[Donn Beach]

It really is not changing the narrative. The narrative is the same as it was when they got Castillo at the trading deadline. They went "all in" when they saw what kind of person he was and signed him to an extension. Same basic play with Naylor. Changing the narrative will be to really spend some money. Spend $10-$15 mill/season on a reliever. Spend up to $25mill/year getting a bat that is not Polo or Geno. Now that will change the narrative and take it to a place that it has never been before

That is an excellent point, better expressed than I ever can. The whole process of Naylor is very similar to Castillo. How they added him, what he seems to bring to the team and how they retained him. They did a similar thing with Randy, adding him mid season. For me it's always been pretty much the same season to season as they became more competitive. I think maybe there's an issue with dipotos process working, nobody wants to accept it, so it's going to be perceived as being changed. Like I said, if anything, dipoto will probably double down on it. Honestly, if fans are buying in thats great, but I don't buy it's changing.

Trading Castillo is no big deal, it's just something I thought to wager on. On the other thread everyone seems to be promoting moving Randy's contact, okay maybe that happens. Overall that is what I'm expecting, that sort of cutting and filling

[Donn Beach]

Here's dipoto talking about it, the last season was just another step in the process. The next step is combining your prospects to the mix of key veterans. He points to the Braves of the 90s as being skilled at that process. Dipoto has laid the narrative out himself, they were focused on retaining Naylor and Polanco, and Introducing more youth from the system. It doesn't give us much to talk about but so long as fans are on board.

https://sports.mynorthwest.com/watch/je ... 846fb90c47

[Michael K.]

If spending on a FA first baseman isn’t spending, then be prepared to be disappointed in what they do.

[D-train]

It really is not changing the narrative. The narrative is the same as it was when they got Castillo at the trading deadline. They went "all in" when they saw what kind of person he was and signed him to an extension. Same basic play with Naylor. Changing the narrative will be to really spend some money. Spend $10-$15 mill/season on a reliever. Spend up to $25mill/year getting a bat that is not Polo or Geno. Now that will change the narrative and take it to a place that it has never been before

That is an excellent point, better expressed than I ever can. The whole process of Naylor is very similar to Castillo. How they added him, what he seems to bring to the team and how they retained him. They did a similar thing with Randy, adding him mid season. For me it's always been pretty much the same season to season as they became more competitive. I think maybe there's an issue with dipotos process working, nobody wants to accept it, so it's going to be perceived as being changed. Like I said, if anything, dipoto will probably double down on it. Honestly, if fans are buying in thats great, but I don't buy it's changing.

Trading Castillo is no big deal, it's just something I thought to wager on. On the other thread everyone seems to be promoting moving Randy's contact, okay maybe that happens. Overall that is what I'm expecting, that sort of cutting and filling

Yeah and then when I posted a direct quote from Jerry saying they no longer need to do that instead of just being a normal person and and saying oh wow, I hadn't seen that, you double down, triple down and quadruple down with nonsense and look like a complete idiot.

This is ONLY about whether they will trade Castillo THIS off season. There are only two options after reading what is highlighted in blue. Either you think Jerry is lying or you can't read. Which is it????

Screenshot 2025-11-27 072434.png (188.78 KiB) Viewed 60 times

[D-train]

Here's dipoto talking about it, the last season was just another step in the process. The next step is combining your prospects to the mix of key veterans. He points to the Braves of the 90s as being skilled at that process. Dipoto has laid the narrative out himself, they were focused on retaining Naylor and Polanco, and Introducing more youth from the system. It doesn't give us much to talk about but so long as fans are on board.

https://sports.mynorthwest.com/watch/je ... 846fb90c47

Once again this is completely irrelevant to whether he is going to trade Castillo. You are just trying to distract from the fact that you were wrong about them still wanting or needing to shed payroll this off season. We won't know definitively for a few months but there are only two options. Either Castillo is in the OD rotation or Jerry is lying.

[Donn Beach]

It really is not changing the narrative. The narrative is the same as it was when they got Castillo at the trading deadline. They went "all in" when they saw what kind of person he was and signed him to an extension. Same basic play with Naylor. Changing the narrative will be to really spend some money. Spend $10-$15 mill/season on a reliever. Spend up to $25mill/year getting a bat that is not Polo or Geno. Now that will change the narrative and take it to a place that it has never been before

That is an excellent point, better expressed than I ever can. The whole process of Naylor is very similar to Castillo. How they added him, what he seems to bring to the team and how they retained him. They did a similar thing with Randy, adding him mid season. For me it's always been pretty much the same season to season as they became more competitive. I think maybe there's an issue with dipotos process working, nobody wants to accept it, so it's going to be perceived as being changed. Like I said, if anything, dipoto will probably double down on it. Honestly, if fans are buying in thats great, but I don't buy it's changing.

Trading Castillo is no big deal, it's just something I thought to wager on. On the other thread everyone seems to be promoting moving Randy's contact, okay maybe that happens. Overall that is what I'm expecting, that sort of cutting and filling

Yeah and then when I posted a direct quote from Jerry saying they no longer need to do that instead of just being a normal person and and saying oh wow, I hadn't seen that, you double down, triple down and quadruple down with nonsense and look like a complete idiot.

This is ONLY about whether they will trade Castillo THIS off season. There are only two options after reading what is highlighted in blue. Either you think Jerry is lying or you can't read. Which is it????

Screenshot 2025-11-27 072434.png

Huh, what's that, it's not a quote. I have never heard him state payroll is going up significantly so it's not a question of calling him a liar.

That's what he's said about payroll that I know of

“I would say, similar to where we ended the year as a starting point,” Dipoto said

Are you really that in love with Castillo that it would break your heart if he's traded? There's nothing wrong with creating payroll flexibility, you are making it out like it's a sin. The mariners are deep with pitching, they are in position to move some of it. Would it make you happier to trade Miller or sloan? In my mind it's what good teams do, it's like old maid. But for some reason in your mind dipoto is honor bound to hang on to Castillo to the bitter end of his contract, okay

[Donn Beach]

Here's dipoto talking about it, the last season was just another step in the process. The next step is combining your prospects to the mix of key veterans. He points to the Braves of the 90s as being skilled at that process. Dipoto has laid the narrative out himself, they were focused on retaining Naylor and Polanco, and Introducing more youth from the system. It doesn't give us much to talk about but so long as fans are on board.

https://sports.mynorthwest.com/watch/je ... 846fb90c47

Once again this is completely irrelevant to whether he is going to trade Castillo. You are just trying to distract from the fact that you were wrong about them still wanting or needing to shed payroll this off season. We won't know definitively for a few months but there are only two options. Either Castillo is in the OD rotation or Jerry is lying.

Show me where I said they need to shed payroll. I said dipoto would be interested in creating flexibility. It's not about reducing payroll it's about spending it more efficiently. The basis of building a winning team is spending efficiently. The payroll can go up and it still can make sense to move on from Castillo's contract. You feel committed to arguing that trading Castillo is stupid which seems odd to me.

[Donn Beach]

If spending on a FA first baseman isn’t spending, then be prepared to be disappointed in what they do.

It's not a question of being dissapointed, I don't have expectations to begin with. I am happy they signed Naylor but I'm not particularly impressed by it. It's what the needed to do and they did it, similar to needing to sign Castillo, they got it done. Now if they would truly get out of their comfort zone by say trading for Katel Marte or signing Kyle schwarber then I'd be impressed. For dipoto to claim that signing was getting out of their comfort zone is comical. The dodgers spent nearly that much on a reliever for Christ's sake. Reminds me of the 60ies crack... Been down so long it looks like up to me ...

[D-train]

Where has he changed the narrative? And what does Naylor have to do with it? He apologized for his poor communication of his strategy but I don't remember him rejecting it. Terms of Naylor, Dipoto wants to build competitive teams. But look at Dipotos entire body of work, when has ever really made a significant increase in talent over an off season? Go back to the first phase of attempting to make the playoffs. He took a. 500 team and after a hundred trades had created a. 500 team out of it. He's always worked at things incrementally

Signing Naylor, and his comments after IS changing the Narrative. That isn't draft/trade/develop. Naylor was a FA, and he could have easily sat back on this bullshit draft/trade/develop philosophy, told the world that Naylor was too expensive and they have to plan for the future. That is what he has done every off season, and not doing that is changing the narrative.

I am just going by what I view is his history and his comments, I don't see anything that changes things really. If anything seems to me his approach has been validated. Look at what he said this off season news conference, it was their intention was to focus on their FAs and adding prospects to the roster. You yourself have commented the plan will be Naylor, Polanco, Williamson and Young. I'm saying, the one thing I feel I can safely bet he's thinking about other than the Naylor and Polanco is moving that contract. I think it fits his MO.
I'm not criticizing him for it, I'm just looking at the evidence as I see it. He very well could be correct to focus on the length of the window. It could be they are in the WS three seasons from now instead of beginning a decline.

Polanco and Naylor are not the type of FAs they have signed in the past. I don't see how you don't see that. Again, if he was not changing his philosophy? Naylor would have been too expensive.

His credibility, what's his concern? He's going to get canned? Hes not listening to fans. The GM that listens to the fans ends up sitting with the fans. What happened last season? That wasn't enough screaming? Who's got the I told you so smirk on his face?. He's not tearing the team apart. Again, he's going to be able to claim its better. But at the same time I'm expecting there to be complaining about it. He's completely confident in his process. Whatever the complaints might be he's going to say, wait and see.

What happened last off season? They were not only not winning the division, but barely hanging on to the WC before he made two splash moves. They didn't trade away Gravy, they didn't sit back and sign one bullpen arm, this was even bigger than trading for Castillo. They added not one but two middle of the order bats that were having very good seasons. NOt a bargain basement guy they hoped would revert to form. Do you think if his bullshit off season plan had worked out they would have gone and done that?

You can make an arguement for a dramatic move and maybe he will pull some off. In terms of what he's thinking we haven't been here before so who knows. But in terms of how he's always operated as far as I can tell I'd expect another season of incremental tinkering to add talent and a focus on the overall window

Adding Naylor wasn't incremental tinkering. Sorry, that is the point you are missing. If he does nothing else? I think he looks like an idiot for even adding Naylor. There has to be something else he is working on. I realize Naylor was here, but he was a Free Agent. This is a very different move for THIS Front Office. It wasn't a trade, it wasn't a bargain basement retread, it was a guy that was in demand on the open market.

The one argument I would make is this, being 2 innings from the World Series didn't hurt. I think we lost out on potential FAs in the past because no one wanted to come here....so Jerry masked the real flaw by saying their plan isn't to spend that way, defer salary for signing their own, draft, develop and trade....54%, yada yada. It might have been him covering up the fact that this was an organization looked at as one that doesn't care about winning, so why go there? Trading for Geno and Josh might have changed that narrative.

It really is not changing the narrative. The narrative is the same as it was when they got Castillo at the trading deadline. They went "all in" when they saw what kind of person he was and signed him to an extension. Same basic play with Naylor. Changing the narrative will be to really spend some money. Spend $10-$15 mill/season on a reliever. Spend up to $25mill/year getting a bat that is not Polo or Geno. Now that will change the narrative and take it to a place that it has never been before.

Once again this is straying off course. The only narrative I am talking about is having to dump salary to create payroll flexibility. Jerry has said verbatim that he isn't going to do that. I am now officially down with this ridiculous conversation which is right up there with people arguing that men can get pregnant.

I have more important things to worry about. Last night our Rottweiler Bing vanished off my Mother in Law's front porch and is still missing. My wife is heart broken and we are about to have the worst Holiday of our lives.