6/6 Afternoon Delight or Disaster GameThread

[Happy as hell]

My theory is that the “opener” strategy takes some pressure off the regular “starter.” If the “opener” gives up runs and the team can’t overcome, the regular starter doesn’t take the loss. OTOH, if I I understand the rules correctly (not likely), if the “opener” gets a lead he can’t get the win so the regular “starter” gets the win if he puts in five innings and doesn’t lose the lead. Is this a way to pad the win total of the regular “starters”?

[D-train]

I just wonder how RG can be a fan of the Pilots when at the same time he's playing in the Reds organization. If he hadn't exposed himself already years ago that pretty much would have done it.

I wonder if he bet on the Pilots like his teammate bet on baseball games.

[Sibelius Hindemith]

My theory is that the “opener” strategy takes some pressure off the regular “starter.” If the “opener” gives up runs and the team can’t overcome, the regular starter doesn’t take the loss. OTOH, if I I understand the rules correctly (not likely), if the “opener” gets a lead he can’t get the win so the regular “starter” gets the win if he puts in five innings and doesn’t lose the lead. Is this a way to pad the win total of the regular “starters”?

That's a pretty lame excuse for throwing a bad relief pitcher out there to open the game. I mean, isn't winning the game more important than attempting to create psychological crutches for the real starting pitchers?

[D-train]

My theory is that the “opener” strategy takes some pressure off the regular “starter.” If the “opener” gives up runs and the team can’t overcome, the regular starter doesn’t take the loss. OTOH, if I I understand the rules correctly (not likely), if the “opener” gets a lead he can’t get the win so the regular “starter” gets the win if he puts in five innings and doesn’t lose the lead. Is this a way to pad the win total of the regular “starters”?

That's a pretty lame excuse for throwing a bad relief pitcher out there to open the game. I mean, isn't winning the game more important than attempting to create psychological crutches for the real starting pitchers?

This is the Mariners he is talking about.

[IStillLoveTheMs]

The Astros lose Morton, Kuechel, and Marwin Gonzalez to free agency, and McCullers, McHugh, Altuve, Springer, and Correa to injury, and they’re 23 games over .500, Still kicking our ass!

Now That’s An Organization.

Come to think of it, M’s never had it easy even when the Astros were awful.

So what if by some miracle these guys get better in 2021, the Astros and A’s are not gonna run and hide.

You realize the Astros were essentially the worst team in baseball from 2007-2014 right?

They tanked for draft picks and that's why they're at where they are. They are paying their young stars practically nothing and it's allowed them to go out and sign the guys like Brantley and Reddick + acquire the Verlanders and Coles of the world + completely stock their bullpen.

In 2019, Bregman is making $640K... that jumps to $11 million next year and $28 million in 2023. Altuve is making $6.5 million in 2019... that jumps to $26 million next year. George Springer is making $12 million in ARB and was putting up MVP type numbers before being sidelined... you can bet your ass that's gonna jump to $20 million or so in his final ARB year if his stats continue. Carlos Correa is making $5 million in ARB... likely to jump to around $12 million next year and $15-$20 million after that. By 2021 Houston will be paying its four stars around $90 million total, if not more, compared to the $24 million they're paying them this year. Pretty sure that will hamstring their ability to pay guys like Verlander and Cole...

Tanking for 10 years, relying on top talent to develop into stars w/o paying them and then falling off the planet when they do does not make them a good organization. It's literally the same thing the Royals did... and look at them now, worst team in baseball.

Sadly, it's what middle markets have to do because they don't have the spending power to keep up with the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox. My guess is by 2023-2024 the Astros are firmly in the cellar. It's a cycle thing and the Mariners are now following a similar model... suck to win.

[DavidGee24]

The Royals might not be the best example having just won two pennants and a World Series, but I see your point because it took them 28 years to get there and then they just caught lightning in a bottle. A better example is the Pirates, they also spent 20 or so years on the outside looking in, and then all they did was get a tiny bit of playoff action.

Rebuilds usually don't amount to much and even though the Astros struck it rich in the draft, if they had depended solely upon that they wouldn't have made it. Pretty much all of their starting pitching they had to go out and acquire. It will be interesting to see if they pay everyone, none of them have particularly started to decline yet.

[Hy Feiber]

The Astros lose Morton, Kuechel, and Marwin Gonzalez to free agency, and McCullers, McHugh, Altuve, Springer, and Correa to injury, and they’re 23 games over .500, Still kicking our ass!

Now That’s An Organization.

Come to think of it, M’s never had it easy even when the Astros were awful.

So what if by some miracle these guys get better in 2021, the Astros and A’s are not gonna run and hide.

You realize the Astros were essentially the worst team in baseball from 2007-2014 right?

They tanked for draft picks and that's why they're at where they are. They are paying their young stars practically nothing and it's allowed them to go out and sign the guys like Brantley and Reddick + acquire the Verlanders and Coles of the world + completely stock their bullpen.

In 2019, Bregman is making $640K... that jumps to $11 million next year and $28 million in 2023. Altuve is making $6.5 million in 2019... that jumps to $26 million next year. George Springer is making $12 million in ARB and was putting up MVP type numbers before being sidelined... you can bet your ass that's gonna jump to $20 million or so in his final ARB year if his stats continue. Carlos Correa is making $5 million in ARB... likely to jump to around $12 million next year and $15-$20 million after that. By 2021 Houston will be paying its four stars around $90 million total, if not more, compared to the $24 million they're paying them this year. Pretty sure that will hamstring their ability to pay guys like Verlander and Cole...

Tanking for 10 years, relying on top talent to develop into stars w/o paying them and then falling off the planet when they do does not make them a good organization. It's literally the same thing the Royals did... and look at them now, worst team in baseball.

Sadly, it's what middle markets have to do because they don't have the spending power to keep up with the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox. My guess is by 2023-2024 the Astros are firmly in the cellar. It's a cycle thing and the Mariners are now following a similar model... suck to win.

You can “tank for draft picks” from now until Doomsday, but if you keep picking either flops or blowouts for year after year after year, you’re just on a treadmill.

Correa, Springer, and Bregman are all #1’s.

The M’s can’t draft, develop, and/or promote.

Period.

[ice99]

My theory is that the “opener” strategy takes some pressure off the regular “starter.” If the “opener” gives up runs and the team can’t overcome, the regular starter doesn’t take the loss. OTOH, if I I understand the rules correctly (not likely), if the “opener” gets a lead he can’t get the win so the regular “starter” gets the win if he puts in five innings and doesn’t lose the lead. Is this a way to pad the win total of the regular “starters”?

To me it has to do with facing a batter for the 3rd time. This is for a weak starter to avoid facing the better hitters the 3rd time.

The opener is supposed to face the top 3 batters in the first inning, perhaps even the 4th or 5th batter. Then the main 'starter' faces the lineup twice but the batters that he faces the 3rd time is supposed to be the weaker hitters because they are not the top of the order. The 'starter' can exit before the better hitters (#2 thru #4) see him for the 3rd time. Ideally I would have the opener pitch to the top five hitters even if it takes him into the 2nd inning.

[D-train]

The Astros lose Morton, Kuechel, and Marwin Gonzalez to free agency, and McCullers, McHugh, Altuve, Springer, and Correa to injury, and they’re 23 games over .500, Still kicking our ass!

Now That’s An Organization.

Come to think of it, M’s never had it easy even when the Astros were awful.

So what if by some miracle these guys get better in 2021, the Astros and A’s are not gonna run and hide.

You realize the Astros were essentially the worst team in baseball from 2007-2014 right?

They tanked for draft picks and that's why they're at where they are. They are paying their young stars practically nothing and it's allowed them to go out and sign the guys like Brantley and Reddick + acquire the Verlanders and Coles of the world + completely stock their bullpen.

In 2019, Bregman is making $640K... that jumps to $11 million next year and $28 million in 2023. Altuve is making $6.5 million in 2019... that jumps to $26 million next year. George Springer is making $12 million in ARB and was putting up MVP type numbers before being sidelined... you can bet your ass that's gonna jump to $20 million or so in his final ARB year if his stats continue. Carlos Correa is making $5 million in ARB... likely to jump to around $12 million next year and $15-$20 million after that. By 2021 Houston will be paying its four stars around $90 million total, if not more, compared to the $24 million they're paying them this year. Pretty sure that will hamstring their ability to pay guys like Verlander and Cole...

Tanking for 10 years, relying on top talent to develop into stars w/o paying them and then falling off the planet when they do does not make them a good organization. It's literally the same thing the Royals did... and look at them now, worst team in baseball.

Sadly, it's what middle markets have to do because they don't have the spending power to keep up with the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox. My guess is by 2023-2024 the Astros are firmly in the cellar. It's a cycle thing and the Mariners are now following a similar model... suck to win.

I wonder if the do a full blown rebuild and lose 100 games for three years straight. That would be something.

[D-train]

My theory is that the “opener” strategy takes some pressure off the regular “starter.” If the “opener” gives up runs and the team can’t overcome, the regular starter doesn’t take the loss. OTOH, if I I understand the rules correctly (not likely), if the “opener” gets a lead he can’t get the win so the regular “starter” gets the win if he puts in five innings and doesn’t lose the lead. Is this a way to pad the win total of the regular “starters”?

To me it has to do with facing a batter for the 3rd time. This is for a weak starter to avoid facing the better hitters the 3rd time.

The opener is supposed to face the top 3 batters in the first inning, perhaps even the 4th or 5th batter. Then the main 'starter' faces the lineup twice but the batters that he faces the 3rd time is supposed to be the weaker hitters because they are not the top of the order. The 'starter' can exit before the better hitters (#2 thru #4) see him for the 3rd time. Ideally I would have the opener pitch to the top five hitters even if it takes him into the 2nd inning.

Yep, that is precisely the reason and yes no reason they can't face five hitters.