Adding contact, and doing it cheaply. Off Szn Plan 1.0

[Optimistic M's Fan]

I don't think anything is stopping them. But I think its maximizing potential in other areas and seeing what we can shore up in weaker areas. After seeing Yesavage in the playoffs, I could absolutely see Kade up by june time. If we either trade for a stud pitcher shipping off some of our prospects (young, arrojo etc) that we feel are expendable, maybe we can get a decent pitcher back to fill the void left by Castillo going. That would leave an absolute ton to add a great outfielder to the mix or possibly even go crazy and try and get Bregman. I'd feel a hell of a lot better adding Bregman and Naylor to the corners, shifting JP to 2nd, start Emerson at short, and still have money to bring in Polanco for DH or trade for a better one on more control. 5th starter would suck for a few months but the offensive output would make up for every 5th start rolling out Evans or Hancock.

[harmony]

The funny thing is everyone wants Kwan and people are sick of Randy and I can see your points but why is Cleveland dying to trade Kwan and why are other teams dying to trade for Randy. I know this is what we do here but it be great to understand the motivation other than lets trade the guys that we don't like and trade for guys we do like.

Kwan may not be available. We don't know. I'm not desperate to get rid of Arozarena. I think he's a plus major league corner outfielder with one year of team control left and I think there's probably a market for him. Keeping him also isn't the worst idea in the world.

FWIW Steven Kwan did not make Jim Bowden's list of 10 MLB players most likely to be traded this offseason:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/673837 ... ren-duran/

[HawkandMariner88]

The fact that this team thinks all their prospects are gonna be superstars is hilarious. I'm not saying trade all of them. You want proven talent. At the end of the day this is all a guessing game. No one knows whose gonna be great & who's not. Again I've made my statement as for who to target. Maikel Garcia at 3rd would be great. Dealing for Skubal is definitely taking it seriously. You can never have enough good pitching. The fact that we can't get 2 premium contact hitters is laughable. There's got to be somebody out there that were not thinking of. I'm just tired of this strategy. You don't want every hitter to be a power guy but at the same time you don't want all contact guys you want a few that can put it over the fence. Again look at Toronto's method. How much are they paying these guys & their in the world series for a reason. Not a collection of superstars. Guys that play the game the right way. No reason why we can't adopt their strategy. You got Julio & Cal. Maybe another power bat to go along with that, the rest should be all pesky, high contact/low strikeout type guys. If there was 1 goal for the offseason going into next year it would be a few things.


From a hitting perspective:


1. Lead the league in walks/OBP

2. Lead the league in lowest K%

3. Lead the league is pitches per PA


From a pitching perspective I think it's pretty obvious:

1. Lead the league in fewest HR allowed

2. Lead league in team ERA

Not hard to adopt that method. You don't win championships by hitting the most HR's. Who is Toronto's highest HR hitter. Surprisingly it's George F'ing Springer with 32 followed by 3 guys with 20 or more (Vlad, Varsho, & Barger). Not a ton there & look where they are. Not only do they not hit a ton of HR's they also lead the AL in AVG (.265), 2nd in RBIs (771), 1st in hits (1,461), 3rd in doubles (294), 3rd in BBs right behind Seattle (520), 2nd fewest K's (1,099), highest OBP (.333), 3rd highest SLG (.427), 2nd highest OPS (.761). Again not hard to adopt this method. It's getting the right collection of guys & adopting & sticking to that philosophy. You can still do this & not a spend a ton either. You add that to Seattle's great pitching & that's a championship formula right there.

[Seattle or Bust]

The fact that this team thinks all their prospects are gonna be superstars is hilarious. I'm not saying trade all of them. You want proven talent. At the end of the day this is all a guessing game. No one knows whose gonna be great & who's not. Again I've made my statement as for who to target. Maikel Garcia at 3rd would be great. Dealing for Skubal is definitely taking it seriously. You can never have enough good pitching. The fact that we can't get 2 premium contact hitters is laughable. There's got to be somebody out there that were not thinking of. I'm just tired of this strategy. You don't want every hitter to be a power guy but at the same time you don't want all contact guys you want a few that can put it over the fence. Again look at Toronto's method. How much are they paying these guys & their in the world series for a reason. Not a collection of superstars. Guys that play the game the right way. No reason why we can't adopt their strategy. You got Julio & Cal. Maybe another power bat to go along with that, the rest should be all pesky, high contact/low strikeout type guys. If there was 1 goal for the offseason going into next year it would be a few things.


From a hitting perspective:


1. Lead the league in walks/OBP

2. Lead the league in lowest K%

3. Lead the league is pitches per PA


From a pitching perspective I think it's pretty obvious:

1. Lead the league in fewest HR allowed

2. Lead league in team ERA

Not hard to adopt that method. You don't win championships by hitting the most HR's. Who is Toronto's highest HR hitter. Surprisingly it's George F'ing Springer with 32 followed by 3 guys with 20 or more (Vlad, Varsho, & Barger). Not a ton there & look where they are. Not only do they not hit a ton of HR's they also lead the AL in AVG (.265), 2nd in RBIs (771), 1st in hits (1,461), 3rd in doubles (294), 3rd in BBs right behind Seattle (520), 2nd fewest K's (1,099), highest OBP (.333), 3rd highest SLG (.427), 2nd highest OPS (.761). Again not hard to adopt this method. It's getting the right collection of guys & adopting & sticking to that philosophy. You can still do this & not a spend a ton either. You add that to Seattle's great pitching & that's a championship formula right there.

I think you have to pinpoint 3-4 of the current top 10 to figure into your championship run.

You trade the rest.

That's all Houston did from 2014-2024.

[HawkandMariner88]

The fact that this team thinks all their prospects are gonna be superstars is hilarious. I'm not saying trade all of them. You want proven talent. At the end of the day this is all a guessing game. No one knows whose gonna be great & who's not. Again I've made my statement as for who to target. Maikel Garcia at 3rd would be great. Dealing for Skubal is definitely taking it seriously. You can never have enough good pitching. The fact that we can't get 2 premium contact hitters is laughable. There's got to be somebody out there that were not thinking of. I'm just tired of this strategy. You don't want every hitter to be a power guy but at the same time you don't want all contact guys you want a few that can put it over the fence. Again look at Toronto's method. How much are they paying these guys & their in the world series for a reason. Not a collection of superstars. Guys that play the game the right way. No reason why we can't adopt their strategy. You got Julio & Cal. Maybe another power bat to go along with that, the rest should be all pesky, high contact/low strikeout type guys. If there was 1 goal for the offseason going into next year it would be a few things.


From a hitting perspective:


1. Lead the league in walks/OBP

2. Lead the league in lowest K%

3. Lead the league is pitches per PA


From a pitching perspective I think it's pretty obvious:

1. Lead the league in fewest HR allowed

2. Lead league in team ERA

Not hard to adopt that method. You don't win championships by hitting the most HR's. Who is Toronto's highest HR hitter. Surprisingly it's George F'ing Springer with 32 followed by 3 guys with 20 or more (Vlad, Varsho, & Barger). Not a ton there & look where they are. Not only do they not hit a ton of HR's they also lead the AL in AVG (.265), 2nd in RBIs (771), 1st in hits (1,461), 3rd in doubles (294), 3rd in BBs right behind Seattle (520), 2nd fewest K's (1,099), highest OBP (.333), 3rd highest SLG (.427), 2nd highest OPS (.761). Again not hard to adopt this method. It's getting the right collection of guys & adopting & sticking to that philosophy. You can still do this & not a spend a ton either. You add that to Seattle's great pitching & that's a championship formula right there.

I think you have to pinpoint 3-4 of the current top 10 to figure into your championship run.

You trade the rest.

That's all Houston did from 2014-2024.

I think I mostly agree with that statement. Depends on the player you want too. If it's Skubal it depends on who they want. If it's Colt or Cole you got a replacement for that in Bliss & Williamson. It just all depends on who they want. Question is does Jerry & Justin want Skubal as bad as we do.

[Seattle or Bust]

The fact that this team thinks all their prospects are gonna be superstars is hilarious. I'm not saying trade all of them. You want proven talent. At the end of the day this is all a guessing game. No one knows whose gonna be great & who's not. Again I've made my statement as for who to target. Maikel Garcia at 3rd would be great. Dealing for Skubal is definitely taking it seriously. You can never have enough good pitching. The fact that we can't get 2 premium contact hitters is laughable. There's got to be somebody out there that were not thinking of. I'm just tired of this strategy. You don't want every hitter to be a power guy but at the same time you don't want all contact guys you want a few that can put it over the fence. Again look at Toronto's method. How much are they paying these guys & their in the world series for a reason. Not a collection of superstars. Guys that play the game the right way. No reason why we can't adopt their strategy. You got Julio & Cal. Maybe another power bat to go along with that, the rest should be all pesky, high contact/low strikeout type guys. If there was 1 goal for the offseason going into next year it would be a few things.


From a hitting perspective:


1. Lead the league in walks/OBP

2. Lead the league in lowest K%

3. Lead the league is pitches per PA


From a pitching perspective I think it's pretty obvious:

1. Lead the league in fewest HR allowed

2. Lead league in team ERA

Not hard to adopt that method. You don't win championships by hitting the most HR's. Who is Toronto's highest HR hitter. Surprisingly it's George F'ing Springer with 32 followed by 3 guys with 20 or more (Vlad, Varsho, & Barger). Not a ton there & look where they are. Not only do they not hit a ton of HR's they also lead the AL in AVG (.265), 2nd in RBIs (771), 1st in hits (1,461), 3rd in doubles (294), 3rd in BBs right behind Seattle (520), 2nd fewest K's (1,099), highest OBP (.333), 3rd highest SLG (.427), 2nd highest OPS (.761). Again not hard to adopt this method. It's getting the right collection of guys & adopting & sticking to that philosophy. You can still do this & not a spend a ton either. You add that to Seattle's great pitching & that's a championship formula right there.

I think you have to pinpoint 3-4 of the current top 10 to figure into your championship run.

You trade the rest.

That's all Houston did from 2014-2024.

I think I mostly agree with that statement. Depends on the player you want too. If it's Skubal it depends on who they want. If it's Colt or Cole you got a replacement for that in Bliss & Williamson. It just all depends on who they want. Question is does Jerry & Justin want Skubal as bad as we do.

From where I sit, the 4 I'm hanging onto are Emerson, Montes, Anderson, Sloan.

You can trade the rest. It also doesn't gotta be Skubal.

The Astros trade for Cole, Verlander... many players to acquire with this farm.

[HawkandMariner88]

Again even those guys are no guarantee. Players are on the table, if you can't work out an extension you walk away.

[Bil522]

Getting someone like Kwan would make a huge difference. We need an elite contact hitter to be in the leadoff spot. Arozarena, Canzone, Raley and maybe Robles are disappointing and expendable, imo. I do like Robles defense and he has a year left on his contract. Yes, we are bringing Williamson back, short on power but a pitch count wrecker and gap hitter who performed well at Tacoma in the 4 hole when he was sent back down. We also have a log jam at 2nd base with Polanco, Young, Bliss, and Emerson likely to join the team in June or earlier. Plus Arroyo who will be knocking on the door later next season. We might be wise to trade a pitcher for an. elite leadoff hitter.Of course we should sign Naylor if possible. I favor playing Ford as backup catcher in favor of keeping Garver. He has more speed than Garver, is another potential patient hitter, and it's hard for me to believe he will be worse at the plate than Garver has been. I'm personally not impressed much with Young. I'd rather keep Rivas, more useful as a pinch hitter, utility 2nd base, utility shortstop, and emergency 3rd catcher. I guess if we got Kwan, I'd have to keep Canzone and Robles along with J Rod for my outfield going forward. There are a couple of free agents that interest me though.... Daulton Varsho, an elite outfielder, also a switch hitter due to be a free agent in two years. Of course Willie Castro will be a free agent this season, he is a very versatile utility player and another switch hitter which along with Polanco, Revis, and Raleigh creates problems for any pitcher. As far as the Cleveland needs, they need a power hitting outfielder, they need a catcher with offensive upside, they need one good starting pitcher, and at least two leverage bullpen pitchers. I doubt the M's will have much money available so in order to acquire Naylor, they will have to jettison a couple players like Garver and Arozarena, and maybe trade off Castillo. Whatever, it's going to be a creative off season. And I surely don't mind trading off one of our elite 5 starting pitchers in order to add Kwan and Varsho or Kwan and Castro. We are a season removed from Cade Anderson or two from Sloan. I'm sure other guys will have much better plans for the off season.

First, welcome back AT. Your thoughts and opinions have been missed. I hope you and your family are well.

Second, are you out of your ever lovin' mind?

Young has struggled initially at every level and then done very well after. He is only 21, so he has every right to improve and get better at this level. He is not JK yet.

Varsho is not a switch hitter and is in the swing and miss vein that we already have plenty of. I do like getting Kwan. I think in our lineup, he sees more pitches and gets on base more. We just don't match up well in a trade for Kwan...no RH power. Garver is a FA and is not coming back. Castro is a FA, so it is just $$$ to get him but I think he is cooked. Take a look at Brendan Donovan of the Cards. He is the guy I wanted to get last year. Plays anywhere and gets on base a lot.

I want to get rid of Canzone. He was sooo overwhelmed in the playoffs and is really the exact opposite of what we need to take the next step.

[bpj]

Not sure how you can give up on Canzone at this point. His regular season numbers were better than Julio's.

[GL_Storm]

Canzone isn't a perfect player and probably never will be, but there's a lot of value there. You don't just "get rid" of players like that. Maybe you move him because he has value to another team and will get you something else you need. But don't sell him short.