SafeCo splits home/away from 2000-2021: A Story of Road Woes?

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SeattleSportsRUs
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SafeCo splits home/away from 2000-2021: A Story of Road Woes?

Post by SeattleSportsRUs » Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:47 am

Hitting OPS:

Home/Away:
2000: .762/.842*
2001: .791/.819*
2002: .743/.793*
2003: .740/.768*
2004: .706/.747
2005: .713/.704
2006: .737/.761
2007: .755/.769*
2008: .720/.695
2009: .712/.719*
2010: .623/.651
2011: .623/.658
2012: .622/.703
AVG: .711/.740

*moved fences in*

2013: .694/.696
2014: .664/.687*
2015: .715/.729
2016: .761/.752*
2017: .761/.738
2018: .693/.749*
2019: .721/.757
2020: .655/.693
2021: .663/.710*
AVG: .703/.723

Opponent OPS at SafeCo:

2000: .679
2001: .703
2002: .676
2003: .676
2004: .749
2005: .721
2006: .741
2007: .762
2008: .754
2009: .685
2010: .663
2011: .667
2012: .626
AVG: .700

*moved fences in*

2013: .715
2014: .616
2015: .689
2016: .729
2017: .712
2018: .704
2019: .766
2020: .685
2021: .684
AVG: .700

Mariners Staff Away OPS:

2000: .807*
2001: .731*
2002: .746*
2003: .722*
2004: .810
2005: .789
2006: .798
2007: .800*
2008: .815
2009: .737
2010: .768*
2011: .728
2012: .777
2013: .758
2014: .687*
2015: .779
2016: .750*
2017: .797
2018: .749*
2019: .825
2020: .807
2021: .777*
AVG: .771

Conclusion: It's not SafeCo that's holding us back. The M's do not suffer as big a disparity as I thought hitting at home versus hitting on the road. Moving the fences in seems to have helped a little bit. We see a 9 point swing for only a 20 point total disparity from 2013-2021 after the fences were moved in. 20 points isn't negligible, but it's also not back breaking. The positive thing about SafeCo is that Mariner hitters have enjoyed a slight advantage when compared to their opponents at the ballpark - an 11 point advantage with the big fences and a 3 point advantage with them moved in.

To my surprise, I found out why the Mariners have mostly been really, really bad. Their pitching staff cannot pitch on the road. We see a 71 point disparity in road OPS compared to pitching at home from 2000-2021. That's also a 38 point disparity for what opposing offenses do at their home ballparks compared to what we do in theirs.

In seasons where the Mariners made the playoffs or finished over .500 they've hit for a .761 road OPS on average. The M's staff OPS on the road in those seasons was .745 on average for a +16 point disparity in favor of the M's. In seasons where the Mariners have finished with a losing record their staffs have allowed a road OPS of .785. The M's offenses hit for an average of just .711 in such years for a disparity of -74 :oops: .

So instead of hitting better at home, the M's need to focus on hitting and pitching far better on the road than they have been. It may be that the M's need to focus on creating a stellar pitching staff and a little bit less on a dominant offense. As sad or crazy as that sounds.

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bpj
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Re: SafeCo splits home/away from 2000-2021: A Story of Road Woes?

Post by bpj » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:38 am

If only it were that simple.

Team: Home OPS/Away OPS (Difference)

BOSTON: .831/.724 (-.107)
TORONTO: .823/.771(-.052)
COLORADO: .817/.643 (-.174)
CINCINATTI: .816/.704 (-.112)
DODGERS: .794/.727 (-.067)
WHITE SOX: .789/.729 (-.060)
HOUSTON: .787/.780 (-.007)
SAN FRANCISCO: .778/.760 (-.018)
WASHINGTON: .771/.738 (-.033)
ATLANTA: .766/.743 (-.023)
BALTIMORE: .760/.652 (-.108)
TAMPA BAY: .745/.753 (+.008)
ANGELS: .745/.690 (-.055)
CUBS: .739/.700 (-.039)
MINNESOTA: .738/.737 (-.001)
PHILADELPHIA: .737/.716 (-.021)
KANSAS CITY: .731/.674 (-.057)
SAN DIEGO: .729/.716 (-.013)
ARIZONA: .725/.658 (-.067)
NYY: .720/.738 (+.018)
CLEVELAND: .717/.705 (-.012)
NYM: .710/.700 (-.010)
DETROIT: .707/.706 (-.001)
MILWAUKEE: .699/.727 (+.028)
PITTSBURGH: .699/.648 (-.051)
OAKLAND: .699/.744 (+.045)
ST. LOUIS: .688/.752 (+.064)
TEXAS: .673/.652 (-.021)
MIAMI: .673/.668 (-.005)
SEATTLE: .663/.710 (+.047)

The average of the 30 teams is (.904/30=.030) that they hit 30 points better at Home than on the road.

The Mariners, at +47 points in Road games means they hit 77 OPS points lower at Home than the average team.

In other words, their splits would be .740/.710 if their Home park gave them the average Home Field Advantage.

The pitchers suck on the road, because they suck. Playing in Seattle just masks that by being an offensive succubus.

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bpj
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Re: SafeCo splits home/away from 2000-2021: A Story of Road Woes?

Post by bpj » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:50 am

Interestingly, if you look at the post-fences being moved in years, we see a distinct narrowing in the OPS gap from 2013-2017.

Enter 2018 when they installed the new grass and the home/away splits became drastic again because singles and doubles are now outs/singles due to the slow grass.


2013: .694/.696
2014: .664/.687
2015: .715/.729
2016: .761/.752
2017: .761/.738
AVG: .719/.720 (-.001)

2018: .693/.749
2019: .721/.757
2020: .655/.693
2021: .663/.710
AVG: .683/.727 (+.044)

Donn Beach
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Re: SafeCo splits home/away from 2000-2021: A Story of Road Woes?

Post by Donn Beach » Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:24 am

aren't doubles generally hit in the air?

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bpj
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Re: SafeCo splits home/away from 2000-2021: A Story of Road Woes?

Post by bpj » Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:52 am

Donn Beach wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:24 am
aren't doubles generally hit in the air?
Many doubles/triples are balls that just roll farther into the gap, even the wall. It wasn't often that a "gapper" makes it to the wall in T-Mobile. Always cut off, runner back to first.

It hits the grass, it slows down quickly and the fielder cuts it off before it rolls to the fence.

The exact opposite of what made Mallex thrive in Tampa.

Donn Beach
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Re: SafeCo splits home/away from 2000-2021: A Story of Road Woes?

Post by Donn Beach » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:20 am

that's the thing, the effects of turf on balls is observable. France hits a line drive gapper that hits the grass and slows to the extent it turns into a single, fans in the seats would be asking, what happened to that ball? You wouldn't need home and away splits, there be visual evidence of it. You would be watching it happen

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bpj
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Re: SafeCo splits home/away from 2000-2021: A Story of Road Woes?

Post by bpj » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:39 am

Go roll a ball on turf, then short grass, then long grass Donn. It's not even a tough experiment. You will get 3 different results.

It's right here in black and white-

2013: .694/.696
2014: .664/.687
2015: .715/.729
2016: .761/.752
2017: .761/.738
AVG: .719/.720 (-.001)

2018: .693/.749
2019: .721/.757
2020: .655/.693
2021: .663/.710
AVG: .683/.727 (+.044)

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: SafeCo splits home/away from 2000-2021: A Story of Road Woes?

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:47 am

bpj wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:38 am
If only it were that simple.

Team: Home OPS/Away OPS (Difference)

BOSTON: .831/.724 (-.107)
TORONTO: .823/.771(-.052)
COLORADO: .817/.643 (-.174)
CINCINATTI: .816/.704 (-.112)
DODGERS: .794/.727 (-.067)
WHITE SOX: .789/.729 (-.060)
HOUSTON: .787/.780 (-.007)
SAN FRANCISCO: .778/.760 (-.018)
WASHINGTON: .771/.738 (-.033)
ATLANTA: .766/.743 (-.023)
BALTIMORE: .760/.652 (-.108)
TAMPA BAY: .745/.753 (+.008)
ANGELS: .745/.690 (-.055)
CUBS: .739/.700 (-.039)
MINNESOTA: .738/.737 (-.001)
PHILADELPHIA: .737/.716 (-.021)
KANSAS CITY: .731/.674 (-.057)
SAN DIEGO: .729/.716 (-.013)
ARIZONA: .725/.658 (-.067)
NYY: .720/.738 (+.018)
CLEVELAND: .717/.705 (-.012)
NYM: .710/.700 (-.010)
DETROIT: .707/.706 (-.001)
MILWAUKEE: .699/.727 (+.028)
PITTSBURGH: .699/.648 (-.051)
OAKLAND: .699/.744 (+.045)
ST. LOUIS: .688/.752 (+.064)
TEXAS: .673/.652 (-.021)
MIAMI: .673/.668 (-.005)
SEATTLE: .663/.710 (+.047)

The average of the 30 teams is (.904/30=.030) that they hit 30 points better at Home than on the road.

The Mariners, at +47 points in Road games means they hit 77 OPS points lower at Home than the average team.

In other words, their splits would be .740/.710 if their Home park gave them the average Home Field Advantage.

The pitchers suck on the road, because they suck. Playing in Seattle just masks that by being an offensive succubus.
The Mariners still had a home field advantage because the OPS home/away disparity there was greater for their opponents (0.93) than them. What ii'm wondering is what are the reasons for the 0.30 league avg disparity.
Last edited by Sibelius Hindemith on Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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bpj
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Re: SafeCo splits home/away from 2000-2021: A Story of Road Woes?

Post by bpj » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:52 am

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:47 am
bpj wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:38 am
If only it were that simple.

Team: Home OPS/Away OPS (Difference)

BOSTON: .831/.724 (-.107)
TORONTO: .823/.771(-.052)
COLORADO: .817/.643 (-.174)
CINCINATTI: .816/.704 (-.112)
DODGERS: .794/.727 (-.067)
WHITE SOX: .789/.729 (-.060)
HOUSTON: .787/.780 (-.007)
SAN FRANCISCO: .778/.760 (-.018)
WASHINGTON: .771/.738 (-.033)
ATLANTA: .766/.743 (-.023)
BALTIMORE: .760/.652 (-.108)
TAMPA BAY: .745/.753 (+.008)
ANGELS: .745/.690 (-.055)
CUBS: .739/.700 (-.039)
MINNESOTA: .738/.737 (-.001)
PHILADELPHIA: .737/.716 (-.021)
KANSAS CITY: .731/.674 (-.057)
SAN DIEGO: .729/.716 (-.013)
ARIZONA: .725/.658 (-.067)
NYY: .720/.738 (+.018)
CLEVELAND: .717/.705 (-.012)
NYM: .710/.700 (-.010)
DETROIT: .707/.706 (-.001)
MILWAUKEE: .699/.727 (+.028)
PITTSBURGH: .699/.648 (-.051)
OAKLAND: .699/.744 (+.045)
ST. LOUIS: .688/.752 (+.064)
TEXAS: .673/.652 (-.021)
MIAMI: .673/.668 (-.005)
SEATTLE: .663/.710 (+.047)

The average of the 30 teams is (.904/30=.030) that they hit 30 points better at Home than on the road.

The Mariners, at +47 points in Road games means they hit 77 OPS points lower at Home than the average team.

In other words, their splits would be .740/.710 if their Home park gave them the average Home Field Advantage.

The pitchers suck on the road, because they suck. Playing in Seattle just masks that by being an offensive succubus.
The Mariners still had a home field advantage because the OPS home/away disparity there was greater for their opponents than them. .93 to .47 last year.
Would love to see you plot their "home field advantage" compared to other teams and say that with a straight face.

Donn Beach
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Re: SafeCo splits home/away from 2000-2021: A Story of Road Woes?

Post by Donn Beach » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:55 am

bpj wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:39 am
Go roll a ball on turf, then short grass, then long grass Donn. It's not even a tough experiment. You will get 3 different results.

It's right here in black and white-

2013: .694/.696
2014: .664/.687
2015: .715/.729
2016: .761/.752
2017: .761/.738
AVG: .719/.720 (-.001)

2018: .693/.749
2019: .721/.757
2020: .655/.693
2021: .663/.710
AVG: .683/.727 (+.044)
but you have never established the length of the safeco grass in the first place. I asked you that before, seem pretty simple to me. Is it longer than other fields?

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