Getting tired of waiting for something to happen

[GL_Storm]

It appears that the players don't want to budge on the expanded playoffs without more owner concessions, and the owners are willing to stall to have only a partial season if the players don't want to have an extended playoff.

This is a really weird take. You make it sound like the main conflict is about the expanded postseason. Yes, that's one of the issues at play, but everything I've read and heard is that the players are more or less fine with it. The problem right now is that owners are unwilling move in any significant way on the things the players want. The latest move today where the owners are asking for federal mediation is actually another stalling tactic, because this whole process is about putting pressure on the players.

[ice99]

It appears that the players don't want to budge on the expanded playoffs without more owner concessions, and the owners are willing to stall to have only a partial season if the players don't want to have an extended playoff.

This is a really weird take. You make it sound like the main conflict is about the expanded postseason. Yes, that's one of the issues at play, but everything I've read and heard is that the players are more or less fine with it. The problem right now is that owners are unwilling move in any significant way on the things the players want. The latest move today where the owners are asking for federal mediation is actually another stalling tactic, because this whole process is about putting pressure on the players.

I never said it was the primary reason. It's user error on your part. Still, even though there was some agreement, the refusal on both sides to compromise leads me to believe that they're going backwards on some points.

[Pharmabro]

So same old same old.

Players want more=more-more-more-more-more

Owbers want more-more-more-more-more

but in reality, every new agreement gives more to players.


Like the super-two thing. Player "compromised" lowering their 100+ million addition to a particular year's cphort group from 100 something million to 100 something million minus 5M. Meanwhile, the owner only want a 10M dollar pool for that same cohort group. So, yes, every CBA includes wins for players. But will it be win, or win+ or win ++, win ++++, etc

[Bil522]

From Evan Drellich of the Athletic:

As one player agent surmised, Major League Baseball’s push for federal mediation in collective bargaining talks is a “win-win” for the commissioner’s office, even if MLB knows the players are unlikely to sign on for the process.

The league is positioning its move as earnest.

“What couldn’t be positive about bringing in an experienced and positive neutral mediator?” said a league source.

Others aren’t convinced.

“If union says no, they win,” the agent said. “If union says yes, they go through this process and burn a couple of weeks, and win.”

If the union says no to mediation — the most likely outcome for a few reasons — then MLB will still have at least a small feather in its cap: it can say that it attempted to use mediators, and the union would not. It’s potentially a way of positioning the players as obstructionists.

Why wouldn’t the players go through with the process? For one thing, they likely fear mediation can involve splitting the baby, to an extent. In the players’ view, the league hasn’t moved much in their direction at all. Splitting it down the middle, or even close to it, then, could inherently benefit management at a time when players are looking for significant changes.

Now, mediation is not binding, which lessens the risk for players. But there’s a PR hit for players if mediators recommend something other than what they are pursuing. And the process would take time as things start to get urgent. The passage of time, some in the industry believe, would also benefit the owners, regardless of what the mediator would recommend.

“Betting on the players getting desperate and cracking the union,” the agent said. “It’s been two months and they haven’t made any progress. They (at MLB) have zero urgency.”

Another agent, though, thinks that if the league is thinking along these lines, it’s making a poor bet.

“Why does MLB win by wasting a few weeks? They are severely underestimating the players’ resolve,” the agent said.

But another major reason players are likely to pass? The parties went through federal mediation with MLB in 1994-95 in a dramatic process, and those on the players’ side roundly ripped the process in 2019 interviews with The Athletic.

“It was a joke. It had no value,” said Don Fehr, head of the MLBPA during the 1994-95 strike. “And there were all kind of agendas at work in the mediation that had nothing to do with the agendas of the parties trying to resolve the dispute.”

Said another top lawyer at the union, Gene Orza: “They came in with what they thought was a halfway proposal, which the owners jumped all over. The owners approved the mediators’ proposal in about a minute and a half.

“The guy virtually eliminated free agency. They just didn’t know what they were doing. That was obvious. They were going to try to split a baby, as if there was one single baby that was going to be split. I went crazy when I heard from one of the mediators.”

The owners didn’t see it that way. Back then, commissioner Rob Manfred was outside counsel at MLB.

“Some historical context is kind of important: Mediators don’t ordinarily recommend solutions. They’re process people,” Manfred said. “They help the parties get through a deal. They don’t like to say, “This is what you should do.” It’s very unusual. So the fact the president asked them to make a recommendation was very unusual.

“And when the recommendation came down, we were not jumping up and down. At least my client wasn’t jumping up and down about the recommendation. We had to convince, and as a group, come to a consensus that the recommendation was acceptable to the clubs. We thought that was a very, very positive step.”

Federal mediation, back in 1994-95, eventually led to the White House getting involved, during the Bill Clinton administration. But because the players thought the mediation process was working in the owners’ favor, the White House’s involvement didn’t move the process along.

“Usually — as a matter of fact without exception, I believe, in the history of American labor relations — what happens is, if the president calls you to the White House after his mediators made a recommendation, he finds a way to make that deal happen,” Manfred said. “Obviously, we were extraordinarily disappointed with the fact that we left the White House with no deal.”

[AT Funchal-Madeira]

We're saved! The government is coming in to "help"! This oughta be rich......

[D-train]

It appears that the players don't want to budge on the expanded playoffs without more owner concessions, and the owners are willing to stall to have only a partial season if the players don't want to have an extended playoff.

This is a really weird take. You make it sound like the main conflict is about the expanded postseason. Yes, that's one of the issues at play, but everything I've read and heard is that the players are more or less fine with it. The problem right now is that owners are unwilling move in any significant way on the things the players want. The latest move today where the owners are asking for federal mediation is actually another stalling tactic, because this whole process is about putting pressure on the players.

I never said it was the primary reason. It's user error on your part. Still, even though there was some agreement, the refusal on both sides to compromise leads me to believe that they're going backwards on some points.

Yeah, I agree with you. The playoffs don't matter to the players per se but they know the owners want it bad and the players have to approve it so they can hold it hostage until the owners meet their other primary demands..

[D-train]

We're saved! The government is coming in to "help"! This oughta be rich......

Yeah the "unbiased" government agency to the rescue. If we have learned anything in recent years its finding an unbiased government agency is like finding Bigfoot riding a unicorn on Saturn.

[Donn Beach]

Since it sounds like the players will probably reject the proposal you guys should have nothing to worry about

[D-train]

Since it sounds like the players will probably reject the proposal you guys should have nothing to worry about

Its a real conundrum for the Liberal faction of Mariners twitter. If they players had requested the mediator they would be all over it but given it is the owners it is causing some mental gymnastics. "hmmm we love the government but we hate the owners" Can almost see their brains melting in real time.

[bpj]

Personally I don't think every player making MLB minimum deserves much of a raise.

I don't think guys like Kelenic belong there sooner, so "service time manipulation" is one I hope the owners win for obvious reasons.