MLB has Really Gone off the Deep End!

[D-train]

Hello, it is a Detroit Tiger promotion, its not MLB

I think the Tigers are in the MLB. Do you think that if the Tigers had a Pro gun, pro second Amendment promotion the MLB would be all good with it???

Not every team holds a gay pride event, the tigers decided to do it. I don't see condemning MLB because of it

Million miles from a gay pride event and advocating and facilitating sex change surgeries for minors imo.

[D-train]

What teens can do when they turn 18:
1. Vote (you probably knew that one)

2. Join the Military

3. Register for the Selective Service (mandatory for males)

4. Buy a lottery ticket

5. Have an alcoholic drink in most places outside of the US

6. Get a body piercing or tattoo without parental consent

7. Buy a pet

8. Sign a contract

9. Change their name

10. Open a brokerage account and buy stock

11. Use a meat/deli slicer at a grocery store job

12. Book a hotel room

13. Become a realtor

14. Become a notary public

15. Enter an adults-only store

16. Skydive

17. Give consent for their own vaccines

18. Work in a bar and serve drinks

19. Sign themselves out of high school

20. Be called for jury duty


21. Open a bank account

22. Have sex legally with someone over 18

23. Get married without parental permission

24. Get a 10 year Passport

25. Get a Costco card

26. Buy real estate or apply for a mortgage

27. Apply to find their biological parents if they are adopted

28. Drive a taxi

29. Get a license to drive a truck

30. Be the only one home when a service repair person needs to enter the home.

31. Go to the ER alone and get treatment

32. Work full time in the school year

33. Register to give blood or be an organ donor

34. Apply for credit cards

35. File a lawsuit

36. Adopt a child

37. Create a will

38. Buy a car

39. Rent an apartment

40. Buy pornogrpahy

42. Sue someone

43. Pawn your belongings

44. Buy spraypaint

45. Bet on a horse race

46. Buy cough suppressants


47. Rent Airbnb

48. Use a ride sharing scooter like Bird or Lime

49. Consent to their own medical care

50. Move out of their parents’ home.

[D-train]

As a libertarian I am totally cool with whatever consenting adults want to do (how bizarre is it that polygamy is still illegal) and I can see not giving a rat's ass about other people's kids but defending it seems like very strange hill to die on or even stand on.

[Case_Of_The_Runs]

Let’s be clear about a bunch of things here because, as is often the case with such sensational headlines – the truth is either muddled, conflated or distorted. I am not sure how many people who chimed in here actually did any research, or actually dug a little deeper into the mission statement and services offered by the organization in question. I am guessing none.

First – this is not a political activity. Some on this board have politicized it, but their desire to make it a case of MLB meddling in politics does not make it so. Even recent incidents of players or coaches making personal decisions that people disagree with (like Kaepernick taking a bended knee during the national anthem or Gabe Kapler refusing to take the field until after the national anthem was played) may feel political, but they’re not – they are just citizens exercising their first amendment rights. As an entity, MLB has not endorsed a political candidate, or made donations to a political campaign, or lobbied Congress to ban tobacco or assault rifles. So, let’s dispel the myth that this is MLB getting involved with politics.

Second, this is simply an example of a privately owned entertainment organization supporting a nonprofit organization that offers support and counseling for LGBT+ youth. Maybe they’re doing it because it’s an issue the owners and/or players feel passionate about. Maybe they personally know young people suffering from gender dysphoria. Maybe they are simply supporting a subset of their fanbase – or seeking to expand it. Whatever, they are free to do this, and you’re free to agree or not with their support. But sports teams and their sponsors have done this for a very long time; Nike and Puma developed product lines or marketing strategies around Kaepernick and Tommie Smith/John Carlos. MLB has a link on their webpage to donate to all kinds of charitable foundation ranging from ALS to the Boys and Girls Clubs of America to antipoverty to the Jackie Robinson Foundation. Maybe I’m wrong, but no one on this board has chastised MLB for their politically-motivated support of minorities, homeless or disenfranchised youth. But one team supporting a center that offers support and counseling for LGBT+ youth? That’s different. I guess.

Last, the Ruth Ellis Center does NOT perform gender reassignment surgery. Full stop. It is nearly impossible for a minor to get reassignment surgery in this country, and certainly not by popping into a nonprofit center that has no medical facilities. Minors may undergo hormone replacement therapies, and this may (or may not) be a precursor to eventual reassignment surgery once a person turns 18. But the center in question does not perform surgeries, and as far as I can tell doesn’t even offer hormone replacement therapy. It is a counseling and education center for trans youth.

Some of this confusion is the result of the chosen source of information (according to Wikipedia, The Gateway Pundit is an American far-right fake news website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods, hoaxes, and conspiracy theories). But if you follow the links on the original page, it takes you to the National Review which, according to media bias rankings is only incrementally better than Fox New in terms of journalistic integrity. But part of the confusion is the result of people taking this news at face value. Three clicks and a Google search, plus 5 minutes of reading and you would see that the article itself didn’t just conflate the story, it outright lied about it accusing the Center of medical procedures it doesn’t perform. Given how much research some people do on WAR or OPS or GOAO, I think they are capable of a similar shallow dive into simply confirming the veracity of an article.

Finally, it’s perfectly OK to disagree with what the Tigers are doing, and it’s fine to disagree with the services offered by the Ruth Ellis Center. As Voltaire would say – and I paraphrase – I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. But if you’re going to wander into the fray as vociferously as some folks here have, it’s better to be informed than not.

[D-train]

Agree being informed is a good thing. If it is just counseling then that is another ball game entirely.

Ironically you are uniformed as well:

1. CK's protest on private property, while representing his employer in front of his employers customers (which ~50% were offended) is not remotely protected by free speech.

The First Amendment guarantees freedoms concerning religion, expression, assembly, and the right to petition. It forbids Congress from both promoting one religion over others and also restricting an individual’s religious practices. It guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely. It also guarantees the right of citizens to assemble peaceably and to petition their government.

2. MLB did in fact, BLATANTLY take a Far left political position by moving the AS game out of Atlanta due to a bill that simply required Voter ID (which is supported by the majority of Americans) and was a far less restrictive voting legislation than what currently exists in Biden's home state of DE. Dems referred to simply showing ID as Jim Crow 2.0 referring to laws that mandated grievous humiliating segregation including but not limited to separate restrooms, schools, drinking fountains and restaurants as well as making interracial marriage illegal.

An allegation that is a complete slap in the face to the millions of Americans that are still alive that actually endured the hell that "original" Jim Crow laws. Proof that they car not for the people that they are claiming to protect but only their political power that they feel is threatened by the implementation of reasonable commence voting measures.

[D-train]

btw Hormone therapy can be irreversible as well so that still stands.

https://healor.com/blog/can-transgender ... e-reversed

Believe it our not I watched about a dozen episodes of I am Jazz so I am probably more informed on this topic that most "old conservative dudes". lol

https://go.tlc.com/show/i-am-jazz-tlc

This person was born male, knew immediately they felt like they were in the wrong body and was started on puberty blockers, had successful surgery but then had major boughts of depression and food addiction resulting in about 100 lbs of weight gain and having to drop out of college. And this is one of the "success" stories.

[Case_Of_The_Runs]

1. CK's protest on private property, while representing his employer in front of his employers customers (which ~50% were offended) is not remotely protected by free speech.

CK was, in fact, exercising his 1st amendment right. Was he arrested, charged and convicted? Did he yell "fire" in a crowded theater? No. You are conflating 2 different issues: his right to express his opinion, and his employer's right to prevent him from doing so. He expressed it, and his amployers expressed theirs.

2. MLB did in fact, BLATANTLY take a Far left political position by moving the AS game out of Atlanta due to a bill that simply required Voter ID (which is supported by the majority of Americans) and was a far less restrictive voting legislation than what currently exists in Biden's home state of DE. Dems referred to simply showing ID as Jim Crow 2.0 referring to laws that mandated grievous humiliating segregation including but not limited to separate restrooms, schools, drinking fountains and restaurants as well as making interracial marriage illegal.

You're a bit off the rails on this one. But again, you're conflating 2 different issues here: was MLB (and the Pirates organization in particular) being political in its support of a trans counseling center (No), and has it ever been politically motivated in the past (Yes). If Hy wants to start a new thread on the AS Game, great. But as for this issue - apolitical.

If it is just counseling then that is another ball game entirely.

This is the biggest concession I can get from someone who wrote "I guess I have had my children neutered and spayed so I shouldn't talk but seems to me if you can't smoke, drink, get a tatoo, rent a car or join the military if you are a minor then you shouldn't be able have irreversible life changing surgery until you are 18 as well. And the MLB being involved in facilitating it, even as an option to donate seems questionable."?? Wow. Very charitable.

I assume you meant you have NOT had your children spayed and neutered?

[Donn Beach]

Let’s be clear about a bunch of things here because, as is often the case with such sensational headlines – the truth is either muddled, conflated or distorted. I am not sure how many people who chimed in here actually did any research, or actually dug a little deeper into the mission statement and services offered by the organization in question. I am guessing none.

First – this is not a political activity. Some on this board have politicized it, but their desire to make it a case of MLB meddling in politics does not make it so. Even recent incidents of players or coaches making personal decisions that people disagree with (like Kaepernick taking a bended knee during the national anthem or Gabe Kapler refusing to take the field until after the national anthem was played) may feel political, but they’re not – they are just citizens exercising their first amendment rights. As an entity, MLB has not endorsed a political candidate, or made donations to a political campaign, or lobbied Congress to ban tobacco or assault rifles. So, let’s dispel the myth that this is MLB getting involved with politics.

Second, this is simply an example of a privately owned entertainment organization supporting a nonprofit organization that offers support and counseling for LGBT+ youth. Maybe they’re doing it because it’s an issue the owners and/or players feel passionate about. Maybe they personally know young people suffering from gender dysphoria. Maybe they are simply supporting a subset of their fanbase – or seeking to expand it. Whatever, they are free to do this, and you’re free to agree or not with their support. But sports teams and their sponsors have done this for a very long time; Nike and Puma developed product lines or marketing strategies around Kaepernick and Tommie Smith/John Carlos. MLB has a link on their webpage to donate to all kinds of charitable foundation ranging from ALS to the Boys and Girls Clubs of America to antipoverty to the Jackie Robinson Foundation. Maybe I’m wrong, but no one on this board has chastised MLB for their politically-motivated support of minorities, homeless or disenfranchised youth. But one team supporting a center that offers support and counseling for LGBT+ youth? That’s different. I guess.

Last, the Ruth Ellis Center does NOT perform gender reassignment surgery. Full stop. It is nearly impossible for a minor to get reassignment surgery in this country, and certainly not by popping into a nonprofit center that has no medical facilities. Minors may undergo hormone replacement therapies, and this may (or may not) be a precursor to eventual reassignment surgery once a person turns 18. But the center in question does not perform surgeries, and as far as I can tell doesn’t even offer hormone replacement therapy. It is a counseling and education center for trans youth.

Some of this confusion is the result of the chosen source of information (according to Wikipedia, The Gateway Pundit is an American far-right fake news website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods, hoaxes, and conspiracy theories). But if you follow the links on the original page, it takes you to the National Review which, according to media bias rankings is only incrementally better than Fox New in terms of journalistic integrity. But part of the confusion is the result of people taking this news at face value. Three clicks and a Google search, plus 5 minutes of reading and you would see that the article itself didn’t just conflate the story, it outright lied about it accusing the Center of medical procedures it doesn’t perform. Given how much research some people do on WAR or OPS or GOAO, I think they are capable of a similar shallow dive into simply confirming the veracity of an article.

Finally, it’s perfectly OK to disagree with what the Tigers are doing, and it’s fine to disagree with the services offered by the Ruth Ellis Center. As Voltaire would say – and I paraphrase – I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. But if you’re going to wander into the fray as vociferously as some folks here have, it’s better to be informed than not.

Thoughtful well written post, thanks

[D-train]

1. CK's protest on private property, while representing his employer in front of his employers customers (which ~50% were offended) is not remotely protected by free speech.

CK was, in fact, exercising his 1st amendment right. Was he arrested, charged and convicted? Did he yell "fire" in a crowded theater? No. You are conflating 2 different issues: his right to express his opinion, and his employer's right to prevent him from doing so. He expressed it, and his amployers expressed theirs.

2. MLB did in fact, BLATANTLY take a Far left political position by moving the AS game out of Atlanta due to a bill that simply required Voter ID (which is supported by the majority of Americans) and was a far less restrictive voting legislation than what currently exists in Biden's home state of DE. Dems referred to simply showing ID as Jim Crow 2.0 referring to laws that mandated grievous humiliating segregation including but not limited to separate restrooms, schools, drinking fountains and restaurants as well as making interracial marriage illegal.

You're a bit off the rails on this one. But again, you're conflating 2 different issues here: was MLB (and the Pirates organization in particular) being political in its support of a trans counseling center (No), and has it ever been politically motivated in the past (Yes). If Hy wants to start a new thread on the AS Game, great. But as for this issue - apolitical.

If it is just counseling then that is another ball game entirely.

This is the biggest concession I can get from someone who wrote "I guess I have had my children neutered and spayed so I shouldn't talk but seems to me if you can't smoke, drink, get a tatoo, rent a car or join the military if you are a minor then you shouldn't be able have irreversible life changing surgery until you are 18 as well. And the MLB being involved in facilitating it, even as an option to donate seems questionable."?? Wow. Very charitable.

I assume you meant you have NOT had your children spayed and neutered?

Nope, I have four legged children.

[D-train]

Btw PSA: Normally Politics topics should be on the Politics forum but I allowed this one for three reasons:

1. It is concerning MLB
2. For those not interested they can simply ignore the thread like I do when to people are arguing about something ad nauseum.
3. Unlike the Seattle Times forum and the early history of this forum I think this forum is in a place where people can have thoughtful discussions without personal attacks or negativity. This one has gotten a bit terse but nothing that warrants action.....

If that changes I will act accordingly. Hopefully this thread does trigger anyone so much as they would consider leaving the forum as a value everyone's participation here.