trade deadline looming France, Lewis, and Haniger returning

[Juliooooo]

If this season were a game of poker the Mariners called a couple bets, but they sure didn't push all in.

They could have done way, way more. Instead they called it good with a rookie in the #5 SP spot who has since been made a reliever, and a backup catcher as the DH leaving us way light on depth.

Was obvious they could have done more = they didn't try hard enough to make the playoffs.

They didn't go all in with Brash. They knew they had Kirby waiting in the wings and ready to take over. That gamble seems to be working out OK so far.

[bpj]

If this season were a game of poker the Mariners called a couple bets, but they sure didn't push all in.

They could have done way, way more. Instead they called it good with a rookie in the #5 SP spot who has since been made a reliever, and a backup catcher as the DH leaving us way light on depth.

Was obvious they could have done more = they didn't try hard enough to make the playoffs.

They didn't go all in with Brash. They knew they had Kirby waiting in the wings and ready to take over. That gamble seems to be working out OK so far.

No they didn't go all in because they went with Brash.

All in would have been going with a Carlos Rodon as the #2 after adding Ray (and a DH/LF) and letting Marco, Flexen and Brash/Kirby sort out the #4 and #5 spots and be the minor league depth instead of acting like Marco and Flexen deserve rotation spots etched in stone on a contending team.

Marco hasn't even looked as bad as normal and he's ranked 62 of 62 qualified SP's on Fangraphs at -.1 WAR compared to Rodons 2.9 WAR.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx? ... &page=3_30

[Juliooooo]

If this season were a game of poker the Mariners called a couple bets, but they sure didn't push all in.

They could have done way, way more. Instead they called it good with a rookie in the #5 SP spot who has since been made a reliever, and a backup catcher as the DH leaving us way light on depth.

Was obvious they could have done more = they didn't try hard enough to make the playoffs.

They didn't go all in with Brash. They knew they had Kirby waiting in the wings and ready to take over. That gamble seems to be working out OK so far.

No they didn't go all in because they went with Brash.

All in would have been going with a Carlos Rodon as the #2 after adding Ray and letting Marco, Flexen and Brash/Kirby sort out the #4 and #5 spots instead of acting like Marco and Flexen deserve rotation spots etched in stone on a contending team.

Marco hasn't even looked as bad as normal and he's ranked 62 of 62 qualified SP's on Fangraphs at -.1 WAR compared to Rodons 2.9 WAR.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx? ... &page=3_30

You said they went with Brash. That was just not true. Sure they have Flexen and Gonzales spots, but they bet that one of Brash and Kirby would work out. They gambled that one of the 2 rookies would work out and it has worked out OK. My guess is they poetically knew there was a good chance that Brash would be a reliever, and that they weren't quite ready for Kirby to take over.

[bpj]

They didn't go all in with Brash. They knew they had Kirby waiting in the wings and ready to take over. That gamble seems to be working out OK so far.

No they didn't go all in because they went with Brash.

All in would have been going with a Carlos Rodon as the #2 after adding Ray and letting Marco, Flexen and Brash/Kirby sort out the #4 and #5 spots instead of acting like Marco and Flexen deserve rotation spots etched in stone on a contending team.

Marco hasn't even looked as bad as normal and he's ranked 62 of 62 qualified SP's on Fangraphs at -.1 WAR compared to Rodons 2.9 WAR.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx? ... &page=3_30

You said they went with Brash. That was just not true. Sure they have Flexen and Gonzales spots, but they bet that one of Brash and Kirby would work out. They gambled that one of the 2 rookies would work out and it has worked out OK.

Going with the rookie combo was the cheap route. They even said they were going after a #2. They just didn't pull it off and Brash was looking ok so they took the foot off the gas instead of adding a #2 and holding Marco/Flexen/the kids feet to the fire by making them compete for a roster spot instead of handing it to them.

Not going all in and getting a #2 SP ensured starts for Marco, Flexen + one of the kids instead of pushing out the weakest link.

The Mariners are in the habit of handing roster spots over and calling them "good enough" so that they don't have to spend more money to raise the ceiling.

[Donn Beach]

Terms of failing to go all in, believe they are playing a long game, valuing years of moderate level competitiveness over a big WS push. We will see if they can pull it off. On one hand, if this is a flash in the pan sort of Pittsburgh pirates deal, that be disappointing. But on the other, if it's more a Minnesota twins deal of years of sustained success that would be nice. My gut tells me, Pittsburgh pirates

I think the plan is definitely for a long competitive window. I think the Astros are the model, but we will see if they can duplicate that level of success.

For me, what sets the Astros apart is the ruthlessness. The guy that created that organization was suspended from baseball and fired. There are other teams that have built solid winning traditions without the controversy. They have done it without reneging on contract agreements, slandering reporters, tanking seasons, cheating. And even if you are happy to accept the Astro approach, I don't see the mariners being committed to a model like that

[Juliooooo]

Going with the rookie combo was the cheap route. They even said they were going after a #2. They just didn't pull it off and Brash was looking ok so they took the foot off the gas instead of adding a #2 and holding Marco/Flexen/the kids feet to the fire by making them compete for a roster spot instead of handing it to them.

Not going all in and getting a #2 SP ensured starts for Marco, Flexen + one of the kids instead of pushing out the weakest link.

The Mariners are in the habit of handing roster spots over and calling them "good enough" so that they don't have to spend more money to raise the ceiling.

Right. They knew they had Flexen, Marco and Brash/Kirby. They never said they were going to get another TOR guy, what they said was "We like the guys we have as depth enough that we aren't going to add an arm just to add an arm." Nobody predicted that Anderson would be as good as he is, and maybe LAD figured something out to make him better. The Tyler Anderson we had last year wouldn't make a bit of difference to this team right now.

Pitching hasn't been a problem. They are carrying this team. I just don't agree with the idea that they were relying on Brash, because I think they just wanted to buy time for Kirby to get a few more starts in the minors.

[D-train]

Actually Jerry did say that. Just didn't follow through.

“What that provides us is the ability to really focus our needs on can we acquire a pitcher like a Robbie Ray who fits closer to the top of rotation.” Dipoto said. “We’re probably not going to naturally rest on, ‘Alright, we’ve got a nice back of the rotation starter’ because we’d rather give that opportunity to our young guys and let them grow.

[Juliooooo]

Actually Jerry did say that. Just didn't follow through.

“What that provides us is the ability to really focus our needs on can we acquire a pitcher like a Robbie Ray who fits closer to the top of rotation.” Dipoto said. “We’re probably not going to naturally rest on, ‘Alright, we’ve got a nice back of the rotation starter’ because we’d rather give that opportunity to our young guys and let them grow.

Where in that statement did it say they are going to get someone? Looks to me like they were looking into of they could get someone and what it would cost. People talk like he made a statement like "we are gong to absolutely add another TOR starter". No such statement was ever made.

Now did they go cheap? Sure, but it's worked out. They decided they would rather keep their young pitching and all their hitting prospects than trade a bunch of assets for a starter. So far is worked out, and thankfully they have been healthy and performing.

[D-train]

Actually Jerry did say that. Just didn't follow through.

“What that provides us is the ability to really focus our needs on can we acquire a pitcher like a Robbie Ray who fits closer to the top of rotation.” Dipoto said. “We’re probably not going to naturally rest on, ‘Alright, we’ve got a nice back of the rotation starter’ because we’d rather give that opportunity to our young guys and let them grow.

Where in that statement did it say they are going to get someone? Looks to me like they were looking into of they could get someone and what it would cost. People talk like he made a statement like "we are gong to absolutely add another TOR starter". No such statement was ever made.

Now did they go cheap? Sure, but it's worked out. They decided they would rather keep their young pitching and all their hitting prospects than trade a bunch of assets for a starter. So far is worked out, and thankfully they have been healthy and performing.

Come on. Do you expect snake oil Jerry to say, "I guarantee will will have another TOR starter or I will resign!" He always gives himself a CYA out with his double speak and non committal generalities.

I agree the rotation has been fine but what has been very unfine is the offense. Going with JK and Frazier and DH lunacy was a massive mistake as was making Romo for $2M your only investment in the pen. And thus we are still under .500 after going 11-3 vs. mostly bad teams.

[Donn Beach]

Going with the rookie combo was the cheap route. They even said they were going after a #2. They just didn't pull it off and Brash was looking ok so they took the foot off the gas instead of adding a #2 and holding Marco/Flexen/the kids feet to the fire by making them compete for a roster spot instead of handing it to them.

Not going all in and getting a #2 SP ensured starts for Marco, Flexen + one of the kids instead of pushing out the weakest link.

The Mariners are in the habit of handing roster spots over and calling them "good enough" so that they don't have to spend more money to raise the ceiling.

Right. They knew they had Flexen, Marco and Brash/Kirby. They never said they were going to get another TOR guy, what they said was "We like the guys we have as depth enough that we aren't going to add an arm just to add an arm." Nobody predicted that Anderson would be as good as he is, and maybe LAD figured something out to make him better. The Tyler Anderson we had last year wouldn't make a bit of difference to this team right now.

Pitching hasn't been a problem. They are carrying this team. I just don't agree with the idea that they were relying on Brash, because I think they just wanted to buy time for Kirby to get a few more starts in the minors.

Anderson was just the piece they should have added. The dodgers added him as a BP piece that gave the rotation added depth. They went through a bunch of different starters last season, they understand the need for all the depth you can come up with. I don't know if they had any sort of inside track, and I am not a second guesser. But come on, they could have used last seasons Anderson on this team, he would have dovetailed into the pitching issues. His added value would have been a bonus. The fact is you need all the pitching you can lay your hands on, you really do. I feel like I keep bringing that up and events seem to always prove it to be correct