To stand pat or not to stand pat, that is the Q

[bpj]

A guy like Kirby, Dollard or Hancock isn't going to factor into the playoffs in 2022 in the same way that Logan Gilbert wasn't saving us in 2021.

We could use an upgrade now, who cares about Hancock, Dillard and Kirby.

Yeah, it's a big window. But it's open now, they shouldn't be dicking around with any stupid rookies in the #5 spot when they need a #2.

Like saying before the season, "Why would we need Carlos Rodon when we have George Kirby?!"

Well, because Rodon has been a 7 WAR player while Kirby has been a 1 WAR player. It's pretty simple.

[Seattle or Bust]

Because relying on rookie pitchers to carry you through a playoff run is insane and nobody does that. Especially a rookie in Hancock who has only pitched 41 innings this year and 85 innings in his pro career. There's simply 0 chance he'll be an M in the 2nd half of this season.

Why on earth do you think the Astros went out and traded for Zach Grienke vs putting Corbin Martin (former top 100 prospect) into the rotation in 2019? Because they want veteran pitchers who have been there to carry the load... they actually traded Corbin Martin in the deal to get Grienke.

I don't not care what the Astros did. I don't care what the Braves did. I don't care what any team in the past has ever done! Jesus.

What does it matter how many innings Hancock has pitched in pro ball? Is he good enough to get outs in MLB or not? That's all that matters. And I'm sorry, but Hancock is coming up here in the next 10 months. He's not going to change much over that period of time.

And then there's Dollard. You can't say anything about Dollard not being ready. "Oh, but he's unproven at MLB level"

Yeah, so was Kirby.

It matters because they're clearly going to limit Hancock's innings this year given his shoulder history (they're already doing it). I doubt they let him go past 100 innings and he certainly won't be at a point to pitch for a playoff run for the M's... he's not happening this year. If they don't trade him, he's likely a 2nd half call up next year after pitching in Tacoma.

Taylor Dollard is a fun story, but he's also only 4 months removed from a 6.15 ERA in A ball. It would be extremely foolish for them to slot him into a starter role during a playoff run given his inexperience... He's still got a lot of development to make.

Calling them up would be just about the dumbest thing for them to do, especially with the easy access to multiple rental pitchers on the market. I was going to say something like, "if it happens, I'll tip my hat to you," but there's just 0 chance.

[desbcoach]

A guy like Kirby or Hancock isn't going to factor into the playoffs in 2022 in the same way that Logan Gilbert wasn't saving us in 2021.

We could use an upgrade now, who cares about Hancock, Dillard and Kirby.

Yeah, it's a big window. But it's open now, they shouldn't be dicking around with any stupid rookies in the #5 spot when they need a #2.

Like saying before the season, "Why would we need Carlos Rodon when we have George Kirby?!"

Well, because Rodon has been a 7 WAR player while Kirby has been a 1 WAR player. It's pretty simple.

My point is why trade prospects for a 5 when the guys we have may be better then who we get.

[bpj]

A guy like Kirby or Hancock isn't going to factor into the playoffs in 2022 in the same way that Logan Gilbert wasn't saving us in 2021.

We could use an upgrade now, who cares about Hancock, Dillard and Kirby.

Yeah, it's a big window. But it's open now, they shouldn't be dicking around with any stupid rookies in the #5 spot when they need a #2.

Like saying before the season, "Why would we need Carlos Rodon when we have George Kirby?!"

Well, because Rodon has been a 7 WAR player while Kirby has been a 1 WAR player. It's pretty simple.

My point is why trade prospects for a 5 when the guys we have may be better then who we get.

Yeah, would be pointless to get a #5 that would be a swing man in the playoffs.

If they add pitching, hopefully it's a guy that can push Marco and Flexen down the totem pole to where they won't get the ball to start Game 3.

[Seattle or Bust]

A guy like Kirby or Hancock isn't going to factor into the playoffs in 2022 in the same way that Logan Gilbert wasn't saving us in 2021.

We could use an upgrade now, who cares about Hancock, Dillard and Kirby.

Yeah, it's a big window. But it's open now, they shouldn't be dicking around with any stupid rookies in the #5 spot when they need a #2.

Like saying before the season, "Why would we need Carlos Rodon when we have George Kirby?!"

Well, because Rodon has been a 7 WAR player while Kirby has been a 1 WAR player. It's pretty simple.

My point is why trade prospects for a 5 when the guys we have may be better then who we get.

Hancock or Dollard would not be better than Rodon, Montas or Castillo... not even close actually.

And if they're going to go out and get a rental piece... you're looking a trading relative nobodies for a guy like Quintana. For instance, the M's acquired Tyler Anderson last year for Carter Bins (currently has a .498 OPS in AA) and a 19 year old pitcher who has thrown 17 innings in rookie ball.

It's really a no brainer to go with a guy who is pitching well and has MLB experience when it costs you next to nothing vs rolling with 2x pitchers who have limited experience in AA ball. I can't even understand why this is a discussion.

[desbcoach]

A guy like Kirby or Hancock isn't going to factor into the playoffs in 2022 in the same way that Logan Gilbert wasn't saving us in 2021.

We could use an upgrade now, who cares about Hancock, Dillard and Kirby.

Yeah, it's a big window. But it's open now, they shouldn't be dicking around with any stupid rookies in the #5 spot when they need a #2.

Like saying before the season, "Why would we need Carlos Rodon when we have George Kirby?!"

Well, because Rodon has been a 7 WAR player while Kirby has been a 1 WAR player. It's pretty simple.

My point is why trade prospects for a 5 when the guys we have may be better then who we get.

Hancock or Dollard would not be better than Rodon, Montas or Castillo... not even close actually.

And if they're going to go out and get a rental piece... you're looking a trading relative nobodies for a guy like Quintana. For instance, the M's acquired Tyler Anderson last year for Carter Bins (currently has a .498 OPS in AA) and a 19 year old pitcher who has thrown 17 innings in rookie ball.

It's really a no brainer to go with a guy who is pitching well and has MLB experience when it costs you next to nothing vs rolling with 2x pitchers who have limited experience in AA ball. I can't even understand why this is a discussion.

You just like to argue?? Montas, Rodon, Castillo are no where near being a number 5. At least pretend you are going to argue the right subject!!

[Seattle or Bust]

My point is why trade prospects for a 5 when the guys we have may be better then who we get.

Hancock or Dollard would not be better than Rodon, Montas or Castillo... not even close actually.

And if they're going to go out and get a rental piece... you're looking a trading relative nobodies for a guy like Quintana. For instance, the M's acquired Tyler Anderson last year for Carter Bins (currently has a .498 OPS in AA) and a 19 year old pitcher who has thrown 17 innings in rookie ball.

It's really a no brainer to go with a guy who is pitching well and has MLB experience when it costs you next to nothing vs rolling with 2x pitchers who have limited experience in AA ball. I can't even understand why this is a discussion.

You just like to argue?? Montas, Rodon, Castillo are no where near being a number 5. At least pretend you are going to argue the right subject!!

I addressed both what BPJ is wanting and what it would cost to get a no. 5 guy to spell Kirby's innings for the rest of the year.

The answer is: it would be wise for the M's to go get a guy like BPJ is alluding to. If not, it would cost you virtually nothing to grab a rental swing man and not start the service time or ruin the development of 2x pitchers who have a combined 140 innings of experience in AA ball.