Finally! Official Hot Stove League Thread

[Seattle or Bust]

Lets see if we can extend him.

MLBTV calls it an overpay... Some could say Swanson was a low-leverage reliever who had a year well above his pedigree... Macko has a 4.45 ERA in the minors.

I'm not losing sleep over getting a recent 2x silver slugger and MVP vote getter for a couple OK arms.

OF name that doesn't get talked about much but would be a fit:

Teoscar Hernandez: .267/.316/.491/.807 slash in 2022. Is set to make $14.5 million in final year of control/arbitration. Had a .919 OPS in 2020... .870 OPS in 2021.

Here a trade on MLBTV:



For some reason Blue Jays fans love this trade and Mariner fans don't. I'd do this trade in a second. He's a better Haniger.

Rumors are the Jays tried to offload him before the All Star break but couldn't reach a deal w. the Marlins.

I called it on the first page. Leggo.

[Sibelius Hindemith]

Doubt he'll be an upgrade over healthy Mitch Haniger. Obviously they don't think paying Mitch is worth the gamble, but let's not pretend having to give up a good relief pitcher and lighten the farm system yet again in order to replace him doesn't hurt.

[Seattle or Bust]

Doubt he'll be an upgrade over healthy Mitch Haniger. Obviously they don't think paying Mitch is worth the gamble, but let's not pretend having to give up a good relief pitcher and lighten the farm system yet again in order to replace him doesn't hurt.

I'm not pretending.

Hernandez is a better hitter than Mitch Haniger. He has around an .860 OPS over his last 330 games.

Mitch Haniger is not healthy. He struggles to be healthy.

Macko is a 22-year-old arm that has is still in A ball with a 4.55 ERA over his last 85 innings of work who has struggled with injuries and horrible walk rates. The M's have 4 arms ranked ahead of him in the farm who are also in AA or higher.

[D-train]

Doubt he'll be an upgrade over healthy Mitch Haniger. Obviously they don't think paying Mitch is worth the gamble, but let's not pretend having to give up a good relief pitcher and lighten the farm system yet again in order to replace him doesn't hurt.

He is a replacement for 2021 Mitch. The concept of a healthy productive Mitch is past tense.

[Optimistic Ms Fan]

I get wanting Nimmo or trading for someone else. Im just curious what everyone wants to do with our surplus of outfielders nobody wants to start on our team. What are we doing with Lewis, Trammell, Kelenic and Winker. Hell throw Dylan Moore in there too. Haggerty can be utility but Thats 4-5 guys hogging payroll that nobody wants to start on our team. What do we do with them? What can we get for them?

[D-train]

I get wanting Nimmo or trading for someone else. Im just curious what everyone wants to do with our surplus of outfielders nobody wants to start on our team. What are we doing with Lewis, Trammell, Kelenic and Winker. Hell throw Dylan Moore in there too. Haggerty can be utility but Thats 4-5 guys hogging payroll that nobody wants to start on our team. What do we do with them? What can we get for them?

DFA Lewis, Trammell in AAA, JK and Winker traded. Moore as Super UT, Sam as 4th OFer. Any other questions?

[Sexymarinersfan]

I get wanting Nimmo or trading for someone else. Im just curious what everyone wants to do with our surplus of outfielders nobody wants to start on our team. What are we doing with Lewis, Trammell, Kelenic and Winker. Hell throw Dylan Moore in there too. Haggerty can be utility but Thats 4-5 guys hogging payroll that nobody wants to start on our team. What do we do with them? What can we get for them?

Haggerty and Moore are not full time OFs. They are utility players. So throw them out of the equation right now. Winker has been rumored to being shopped. I can't imagine that there would be a lot of takers considering he can't field, is coming off of a horrible injury plagued year and is set to make $8M next season. At best you slot him in as you're DH in 2023. Then there's Lewis. How is that knee? Because it looked "wrecked" to me. If you aren't hitting, then you definitely can't be on this team. I'm not even sure he can play the OF anymore if we're being honest. Hoping for a full recovery, but I'm not holding my breath. Then you have Trammell and Kelenic. Both serviceable in the field, but can't hit their weight in the majors. They both look like 4th OFs to me. There's still time left for both, but how much can you give them on a contending team? The train is leaving the station and both of those boys are still stuck on the AAA platform. Might be time to pull out and make a trade. No, what Seattle needs right now, is proven MLB hitters with a track record. Teoscar is the first piece to fall of what I expect is to be a busy offseason for Dipoto.

Now if they can offload Gonzales, Flexen, and Winker, that would create some wiggle room to go out and get P Kodai Sengal, OF Masakata Yoshida, and potentially one of the Big SS like Xander Bogaerts or Trea Turner.

1.SS-Turner
2.CF-JRod
3.RF-Hernandez
4.LF-Yoshida
5.1B-France
6.C-Raleigh
7.3B-Suarez
8.DH-??(Haniger)
9.2B-Crawford

You still have a hole at DH if you trade Winker. So a potential return for Haniger coming back to play the OF part time isn't quite out of the cards.

Ace-Kirby
P-Castillo
P-Gilbert
P-Ray
P-Sengal

I know a lot of you are like wait what?! Castillo is our Ace! Just calling it like I see it. The M's will no doubt roll out with Castillo as our opening day starter and be touted as our current Ace. But I think when it's all said and done, Kirby will be above all the rest. Might find some takers on Ray's contract when Emerson gets closer to being ready.

I got one right in the Teoscar trade! Woo!

[Seattle or Bust]

I get wanting Nimmo or trading for someone else. Im just curious what everyone wants to do with our surplus of outfielders nobody wants to start on our team. What are we doing with Lewis, Trammell, Kelenic and Winker. Hell throw Dylan Moore in there too. Haggerty can be utility but Thats 4-5 guys hogging payroll that nobody wants to start on our team. What do we do with them? What can we get for them?

Good questions.

Of the players you listed, here's their trade value listed in order:

Moore: 8.7
Kelenic: 5.6
Trammell: 3
Winker: 2.1
Lewis: 0

I think with Kelenic you could still find trade partners who believe his value to be quite a bit higher than that given his pedigree as a former prospect.

Trammell and Winker seem like they'd be throw ins to a trade for a reliever or payroll dumps from other teams. A lot of Yankee fans want the Yanks to trade Winker for Gleyber Torres for instance.

I think this is overvaluing DMO a little bit. $8.7 million for a utility guy seems a bit rich... Teoscar had around the same value.

If trading for a Bryan Reynolds type is your fancy... I could see Kelenic being a big part of a deal like that given his age. Something like Emerson Hancock, Jarred Kelenic, Lazaro Montez is a deal I could see.

I could see Winker and a young prospect for a Gleyber Torres type.

I could see Trammell, DMO or Lewis for like a Jose Alvarado from the Phillies or a Jordan Hicks from the Cardinals or a Ryne Stanek from the Astros.

All these guys should be viewed as trade chips though.

[GL_Storm]

Still better then some guys we threw out

That was my point. The bar for 4th outfielder in MLB is pretty low. You're basically hoping to get a replacement level player that has some useful skills that can help you win here and there. Maybe think of it as "replacement plus" or something. That's sort of where I see Tapia. He's not good really, but he's probably useful enough in a bench role to get another year of ML service time in 2023.

We have Sam, Moore, TT, JK and Marlowe as 4th+ OF options. We certainly don't need another of Tapia's ilk.

I wasn't suggesting the Mariners pick him up. I just thought it was notable that the Jays let him go. He got 433 plate appearances last year, so was nearly a full time player, and his BA, at .265, was above average. I'm guessing it was a money thing, that he must have projected to make enough in arbitration that they didn't feel like he was worth it, so by letting him go they avoid that cost, presumably $4 million or more, maybe $5 million. And then we see with the Teoscar trade that the Jays are shedding $12 million while only taking back whatever Swanson will get in return. But I'm curious what the Jays are going to do next, if the money shuffling is simply reallocating payroll or if they're planning to go big via trade or free agency. They really need a left-handed hitter. I could have easily seen Trammell or Kelenic included in the Teoscar deal.

[Sexymarinersfan]

That was my point. The bar for 4th outfielder in MLB is pretty low. You're basically hoping to get a replacement level player that has some useful skills that can help you win here and there. Maybe think of it as "replacement plus" or something. That's sort of where I see Tapia. He's not good really, but he's probably useful enough in a bench role to get another year of ML service time in 2023.

We have Sam, Moore, TT, JK and Marlowe as 4th+ OF options. We certainly don't need another of Tapia's ilk.

I wasn't suggesting the Mariners pick him up. I just thought it was notable that the Jays let him go. He got 433 plate appearances last year, so was nearly a full time player, and his BA, at .265, was above average. I'm guessing it was a money thing, that he must have projected to make enough in arbitration that they didn't feel like he was worth it, so by letting him go they avoid that cost, presumably $4 million or more, maybe $5 million. And then we see with the Teoscar trade that the Jays are shedding $12 million while only taking back whatever Swanson will get in return. But I'm curious what the Jays are going to do next, if the money shuffling is simply reallocating payroll or if they're planning to go big via trade or free agency. They really need a left-handed hitter. I could have easily seen Trammell or Kelenic included in the Teoscar deal.

Jays fans are screaming to move Springer over to RF and part time DH. They've offloaded $20M in their last two deals. They want Nimmo in CF.