So much for the theory that the homeless problem is due to housing shortage

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

And that is if you are single income and exactly at minimum wage.

$38,000 per year. Subtract 70% and you get $11,400, which is very close to $1000 a month or $50 per month more. It is doable.

I don't see any reason to subtract anything.
At minimum wage, you will not pay income tax.
At minimum wage, you are still eligible for food stamps....oops, that phrase hurts peoples feelings so let's call it EBT.

[DanielVogelbach]

There should be no minimum wage. There should be no child labor laws. Both are tyrannical.

We do agree on something, but tyrannical might be a bit much.

We agree that telling a 14 year old kid they can't sweep a parking lot for $10 week is immoral.

Everything the government does is immoral, because there's no consent. There's no legitimate contract.

The only time a government could ever be legitimate would be if everyone voluntarily joined and their jurisdiction was not bound by lines on a map. They could only accept donations. They could protect and serve, but they could not force you to pay for anything. And, if you didn't like the way they were building roads, helping the poor, educating children, or defending your neighbors, then you could voluntarily choose to donate to another government. But, of course, that would just be the free market.

[ddraig]

Not sure I agree that it is immoral for a 14 year old to sweep your parking lot. At 14, I was working at Longacres mucking stalls and hot walking horses. If the kid wants the money, why not? As long as it isn't the Costco Parking Lot, who cares?

[DanielVogelbach]

Not sure I agree that it is immoral for a 14 year old to sweep your parking lot. At 14, I was working at Longacres mucking stalls and hot walking horses. If the kid wants the money, why not? As long as it isn't the Costco Parking Lot, who cares?

You misread. I'm saying the same thing. I'm against anyone getting in the way of a voluntary agreement between two parties if there is no aggression being used toward anyone else. I don't care how old a worker is or what wage they agree to work for. It's their right to negotiate that contract, and I have no right to get in the way. Nor, does any so-called "representative" of mine. (Politicians represent their owners, not their constituents)

Child labor law is an obvious ploy to make families more dependent on government and get more kids into the indoctrination camps for 12 years. The government doesn't want the kids out their learning practical skills in the real world. They don't want them bringing home any money to help out their family.

Minimum wage makes it more difficult to get a business off the ground. It favors the mega corporations with their economies of scale. It can make it more difficult for a person to find work and start learning skills to advance their career.

There is no reason to mess with free trade. The idea that you can "regulate" a market via the guns of government and make it work better is a myth. There is just the free market, and the not free market. The free market always wins.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Not sure I agree that it is immoral for a 14 year old to sweep your parking lot. At 14, I was working at Longacres mucking stalls and hot walking horses. If the kid wants the money, why not? As long as it isn't the Costco Parking Lot, who cares?

You misread. I'm saying the same thing. I'm against anyone getting in the way of a voluntary agreement between two parties if there is no aggression being used toward anyone else. I don't care how old a worker is or what wage they agree to work for. It's their right to negotiate that contract, and I have no right to get in the way. Nor, does any so-called "representative" of mine. (Politicians represent their owners, not their constituents)

Child labor law is an obvious ploy to make families more dependent on government and get more kids into the indoctrination camps for 12 years. The government doesn't want the kids out their learning practical skills in the real world. They don't want them bringing home any money to help out their family.

Minimum wage makes it more difficult to get a business off the ground. It favors the mega corporations with their economies of scale. It can make it more difficult for a person to find work and start learning skills to advance their career.

There is no reason to mess with free trade. The idea that you can "regulate" a market via the guns of government and make it work better is a myth. There is just the free market, and the not free market. The free market always wins.

Ddraig, don't bother.
He has grand [but weird] ideas, but can't answer simple questions about them.

He claims he answers them, but it's by spewing more of the same shit that is basically; "government bad". But really never answers anything, but keeps posts the same thing over and over.

[DanielVogelbach]

He has grand [but weird] ideas, but can't answer simple questions about them.

Weird ideas like

1. Nobody signed any "social contract"
2. It's impossible to delegate rights you don't have to a "representative" or "government".
3. Three to four dozen slave owning lawyers and politicians on a continent of 3 million people got together and proclaimed they run everything, can tax everybody, make up the rules for everyone and then have their media (newspapers) proclaim it valid.
4. The media is being used to control perception on a wide scale
5. "Government" is robbing the population for half their income in overt taxes, covert taxes, property taxes, and inflation.
6 "Government" is using a hidden curriculum to indoctrinate the pseudo-religion of statism and obedience in its mandatory government schools
7. "Goverment" is using unethically manipulative cult-indoctrination techniques on cub scouts, boy scouts, and police military recruits to indoctrinate them into a pseudo religion - Statism
8. The government is working with Hoillywood to have Statism, nationalism, and other propaganda and control techniques woven into movies and television to make the immoral, crooked ssytem appear legitimate

Bottom line is there's nothing legitimate about our so-called "government". Of course, an indoctrinated statist (99% of people) will see these ideas as crazy. That's the entire point of the propaganda and the schools. It's the reason they sing the national anthem before every sporting event. It's a cult.

There is also no real need to directly address "How are we going to do XYZ without a bunch of illegitimate criminal thugs running the show".

Building roads in a free market is so easy. You have to really first focus on point #5 above. Focus on it very hard. Think about the roads we get under the current circumstances. Then, remember that Amazon and UPS need the roads for their commerce. The free market always delivers best. It's not perfect, but there is no magic "government sauce" you can add to make it work better. People only believe that, because it's drilled into their heads since they learn the pledge of allegiance in elementary school.

[GL_Storm]

Always the same thing with this guy.

[gil]

From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

I interpret this as The Founders stating that government is not antithetical to our rights. Government is the means to "secure" these rights.

Or is the Declaration of Independence just another manifestation of statism?

Perhaps my being brainwashed is showing.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

I interpret this as The Founders stating that government is not antithetical to our rights. Government is the means to "secure" these rights.

Or is the Declaration of Independence just another manifestation of statism?

Perhaps my being brainwashed is showing.

I was actually going to spend an hour going over all of this dudes points just to prove him wrong. Then I realized that it wouldn't matter. Years ago we had it out about if everyone was 'the same' and no matter what I posted, he would disagree with. This dude is obtuse, stubborn and unable to understand any point that doesn't totally agree with his......a lot like the extreme political lines.
So I decided not to waste my time on him here.

[ddraig]

Not sure I agree that it is immoral for a 14 year old to sweep your parking lot. At 14, I was working at Longacres mucking stalls and hot walking horses. If the kid wants the money, why not? As long as it isn't the Costco Parking Lot, who cares?

You misread. I'm saying the same thing. I'm against anyone getting in the way of a voluntary agreement between two parties if there is no aggression being used toward anyone else. I don't care how old a worker is or what wage they agree to work for. It's their right to negotiate that contract, and I have no right to get in the way. Nor, does any so-called "representative" of mine. (Politicians represent their owners, not their constituents)

Child labor law is an obvious ploy to make families more dependent on government and get more kids into the indoctrination camps for 12 years. The government doesn't want the kids out their learning practical skills in the real world. They don't want them bringing home any money to help out their family.

Minimum wage makes it more difficult to get a business off the ground. It favors the mega corporations with their economies of scale. It can make it more difficult for a person to find work and start learning skills to advance their career.

There is no reason to mess with free trade. The idea that you can "regulate" a market via the guns of government and make it work better is a myth. There is just the free market, and the not free market. The free market always wins.

you are correct, I did misread that. Sorry.