HOFer (inevitable) Ichiro Suzuki

[D-train]

You can say it, it doesn't mean it's going to happen, or it's a crime if it doesn't. It's making a judgement on a guys career relative to the HOF. Saying Ichiro should be unanimous is valuing him at the very pinnacle of the sport. Junior is there, junior wasn't unanimous. It's commented he should have been. I don't read it as saying it's unfair, rather that junior deserves to be at the pinnacle. The unanimous thing is a recent development

But if you think certain guys should be unanimous it insinuates that other guys should make it up not be unanimous. So you think a guy should make it but some voters shouldn't vote for him. Which is illogical. I think most people just say shit without thinking about how dumb it makes them sound because they are too lazy to use their brains.

[Donn Beach]

It's not illogical, voters have to make choices. They have to set priorities for who they vote for. Guys first year on the ballot guys won't get votes because it's not important. They aren't a first ballot anyway. Voters change their minds when they become more familiar with a candidate. A first ballot type demands attention. Voters that left junior off their ballot had to consider it in terms of juniors stature. Maybe they did it to keep him from being unanimous, who knows. Then you have Rivera. You can question voters leaving junior off their ballot but fact is it happened. I don't think it's so much questioning those voters as marvelling it didn't happen with Rivera. Every single voter agreed to put Rivera on their ballot his first year of eligibility. That's the thing, it's not a question of deciding if a player is Hof worthy. It's deciding to put them on your ballot their first year of eligibility. You can believe a guy is Hof worthy but not include him on your ballot.

[Big_Maple]

But if you think certain guys should be unanimous it insinuates that other guys should make it up not be unanimous. So you think a guy should make it but some voters shouldn't vote for him. Which is illogical. I think most people just say shit without thinking about how dumb it makes them sound because they are too lazy to use their brains.

I dunno. I feel like we are going in circles.

As I understand it, the voters place up to 10 names on their ballots, and they are choosing among a group of 20 or more each year. Presumably all of them meet some minimum criteria to even be on the ballot, but even among the guys that were short listed, not all of them will get in.

Getting a unanimous vote would be difficult to achieve. If there are 400 people voting, you would have to appear on the top 10 list for every single one of them. The bar is lower to simply be inducted your first year - you have to be on the top 10 list for 75% of the folks casting ballots in your first year of eligibility.

Ichiro will be an easy first year inductee, and he will likely be on the top 10 list for more than 95% of the people casting ballots - maybe 98 or 99%. But there will always be a few holdouts - folks who, for whatever reason, do not consider Ichiro to be in their top 10 choices that year.

But as far as I am concerned, guys like Ichiro (or Griffey, or Trout or Ohtani) should automatically be on everyone's top 10 list given their contributions to the sport.

Here is the only way I feel Ichiro should not be unanimous (and note that this is being hyperbolic, but I'm trying to make a point). If these 10 other guys were also on the ballot with Ichiro, I can see how he would not be unanimous.

Ichiro
Babe Ruth
Ted Williams
Willie Mays
Ty Cobb
Mickey Mantle
Ken Griffey Jr.
Rickey Henderson
Tom Seaver
Greg Maddux
Honus Wagner

Then I could see some guys not putting Ichiro on their ballot given that they only get to choose 10.

[D-train]

I guess when people say he should be unanimous there are saying every voter that thinks he should be in should prioritize him on the first ballot over guys like Wagner who might not make it and fall off on his last season of eligibility.

I guess I just don't do the point of telling others how to vote and that is what you are doing when you say you think he should be unanimous instead of just saying you think he is a 1st ballot HOFer.

[D-train]

But if you think certain guys should be unanimous it insinuates that other guys should make it up not be unanimous. So you think a guy should make it but some voters shouldn't vote for him. Which is illogical. I think most people just say shit without thinking about how dumb it makes them sound because they are too lazy to use their brains.

I dunno. I feel like we are going in circles.

As I understand it, the voters place up to 10 names on their ballots, and they are choosing among a group of 20 or more each year. Presumably all of them meet some minimum criteria to even be on the ballot, but even among the guys that were short listed, not all of them will get in.

Getting a unanimous vote would be difficult to achieve. If there are 400 people voting, you would have to appear on the top 10 list for every single one of them. The bar is lower to simply be inducted your first year - you have to be on the top 10 list for 75% of the folks casting ballots in your first year of eligibility.

Ichiro will be an easy first year inductee, and he will likely be on the top 10 list for more than 95% of the people casting ballots - maybe 98 or 99%. But there will always be a few holdouts - folks who, for whatever reason, do not consider Ichiro to be in their top 10 choices that year.

But as far as I am concerned, guys like Ichiro (or Griffey, or Trout or Ohtani) should automatically be on everyone's top 10 list given their contributions to the sport.

Here is the only way I feel Ichiro should not be unanimous (and note that this is being hyperbolic, but I'm trying to make a point). If these 10 other guys were also on the ballot with Ichiro, I can see how he would not be unanimous.

Ichiro
Babe Ruth
Ted Williams
Willie Mays
Ty Cobb
Mickey Mantle
Ken Griffey Jr.
Rickey Henderson
Tom Seaver
Greg Maddux
Honus Wagner

Then I could see some guys not putting Ichiro on their ballot given that they only get to choose 10.

This is what I disagree with. You have no idea the rationale of others for voting the way they do. Maybe their rationale is idiotic but I would think they have legit reasons and aren't insane lunatics.

[Big_Maple]

I guess when people say he should be unanimous there are saying every voter that thinks he should be in should prioritize him on the first ballot over guys like Wagner who might not make it and fall off on his last season of eligibility.

I guess I just don't do the point of telling others how to vote and that is what you are doing when you say you think he should be unanimous instead of just saying you think he is a 1st ballot HOFer.

I guess I get that. But I also don't get a baseball writer who doesn't put a guy like Ichiro on his ballot every single time he's eligible.

If not Ichiro, then Babe Ruth. I would want to sit down with the guy who voted for 10 other guys and not the Great Bambino to understand why.

So yeah - I am biased. I'm a huge Ichiro nut. His is the only jersey I own. My kids buy me Ichiro memorabilia for father's day. Bias notwithstanding, I just feel that Ichiro's performance on the field and contributions to the sport off the field should put him on every one of the BBWAA's ballots, and I would scratch my head about the 1 or 2 or 3 guys who didn't vote for him.

[Big_Maple]

>>You have no idea the rationale of others for voting the way they do.

Indeed. I don't.

But you're right - it's a crapshoot. When you put 400 people in a room and give them choices, it's likely that a few will go with non-obvious choices. Which is exactly why Mariano Rivera's induction was so special.

[Donn Beach]

As I understand it, the v oters place up to 10 names on their ballots, and they are choosing among a group of 20 or more each year. Presumably all of them meet some minimum criteria to even be on the ballot, but even among the guys that were short listed, not all of them will get in

That's it. Voters have to prioritize. It's like with Edgar, his total went up as his elimination drew near. Voters
began to focus on him and his total increased. I was going to say, I don't believe Darren would agree with Ichiro being unanimous, or maybe even first ballot. If he was unanimous it speak to how really popular he is around the league. Of course that go without saying. Riviera did it by being popular, junior came close by being extremely popular. It take hof baseball skills and a personality that people are attracted to.

I remember the good ol days when we debated if he was even Hof worthy

[Captain 97]

Your All Snub starting lineup

1. Kenny Lofton, CF
2. Barry Bonds, LF
3. Gary Sheffield, DH
4. Mark McGwire, 1B
5. Sammy Sosa, RF
6. Dick Allen, 3B
7. Nomar Garciaparra, SS
8. Thurman Munson, C
9. Lou Whitaker, 2B

SP: Roger Clemens

Closer: Dan Quisenberry

I have Edmonds in the OF. 60.4 WAR no roids.

Ichiro 60.0
Sosa 58.6 With Roids
Bonds POS human AND massive Roids
Lofton should have made it with 68 WAR

If you put the steroid guys in a separate category, The biggest Snub is Curt Schilling. 79.5 WAR and the only pitcher over 3000 K's not in the hall. All because of his political beliefs.

[D-train]

Your All Snub starting lineup

I have Edmonds in the OF. 60.4 WAR no roids.

Ichiro 60.0
Sosa 58.6 With Roids
Bonds POS human AND massive Roids
Lofton should have made it with 68 WAR

If you put the steroid guys in a separate category, The biggest Snub is Curt Schilling. 79.5 WAR and the only pitcher over 3000 K's not in the hall. All because of his political beliefs.

Yep, complete joke.