A's done in Oakland

[Donn Beach]

I have been trying to find the right words to facilitate how I'm feeling about this. But I think I have. What is happening in Oakland with the Oakland A's to me is nothing short of a crime. To me, that team is being stolen from 56 years of history. Is being stolen from four generations of fans. It's being stolen from an entire city. It's is being stolen by a man who did nothing to earn this team other than get it signed over to him when his daddy died. He didn't have to work hard. He didn't have to grind away at an 8 to 5. He didn't have to work at all. And what does this man do to show his appreciation for his good fortune? He gives millions of fans the finger, while he high tails it to the glitz and glamor of Las Vegas all on their dime. What a bastion of humanitarianism this man is. I don't care that the man's wealthy. I don't care that the man can do whatever he wants because of his bank account. What I care about are the millions of fans that no longer have a piece of civic pride that means the world to them. All in the name of luxury boxes. Have your wealth. Make your money. Enjoy the finer things. That's perfectly fine. But to steal from these people that have done nothing to you except not wanting to foot the bill for the entirety of your palace when you can afford to chip in a bit?... I changed my mind IT IS CRIMINAL. NOTHING SHORT ABOUT IT.

Hiya, welcome on board. Great to have you. Love your passion and your history, it's gonna be a hell of a ride plus educational for me personally listening to your contributions.

I slightly disagree with the four generations though - the team was planted in Oakland in 1968, probably in a similar fashion to how they have been taken out (my homework tonight is to read up on their Philadephia and KC years).

There will have been no life-long As fans there at that time, would there? They are only 9 years older than the Mariners.

At best someone born in the early/mid 70s i.e. our generation could be the first generation Oakland fans and I don't have 3 further generations sat under me just yet and we probably won't for another decade or two.

Yes horrible for any team to be ripped out of their community - but that is the biggest fault of your fabulous American sports. Unless you are the Green Bay Packers there is little to stop greedy owners tearing up history and relocating.

Around the MLB, how many teams are not vulnerable to this kind of stunt? Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Cardinals, Cubs perhaps? Even the Dodgers weren't safe in the old days albeit relocation is incredibly unlikely for them nowadays.

That's the one thing that does worry me about all the clamour for Stanton to sell the team. He is total scum for sure, but once a team changes hands or passed down a family this kind of thing is on the cards. I have often wanted to ask in here about Sonicsgate but I get the feeling that's it's such an elephant in the room of Seattle history that very few people want to open those wounds.

Be careful what we wish for, and that is not an endorsement of our current owners.

I don't understand your definition of a life long fan. I was born in 1952 and so have been a long standing fan of the mariners. I was in fact an Oakland A's fan before the mariners came into existence. I believe there are as legitimate Oakland fans of the A's as any franchise around the country.

Teams aren't going to get moved other than the Rays. Them and the A's were the last of the mohicans. Franchises that hadn't leveraged a new stadium out of their community. That and MLB is running out of communities to use as blackmail to leverage new ballparks out of

[mostonmike]

56 years isn't a massively long time to be fair. I said i would do some homework and it seems Charlie Finley bought the team in the 60s and touted it to move it to anywhere that would take it. Not exactly a "storied franchise" despite how many World Series they have won.

Came down to Seattle and Oakland. We could have been the Seattle Athletics. Fuck that.

[Donn Beach]

56 years isn't a massively long time to be fair. I said i would do some homework and it seems Charlie Finley bought the team in the 60s and touted it to move it to anywhere that would take it. Not exactly a "storied franchise" despite how many World Series they have won.

Came down to Seattle and Oakland. We could have been the Seattle Athletics. Fuck that.

I don't understand your point, storied franchises have gotten moved as well. An owner should be able to buy a franchise and move it to where he feels like?

[bpj]

What cities aren’t dumps, look at downtown Seattle after 2020!

Baltimore, Detroit, Cleveland, and on and on….

Third World hellholes.

What fan would feel comfortable having their favorite players traipse through MLK Jr Way on their free time?

I haven't been to Seattle in years for exactly that reason, but I'm very much looking forward to going to games in Las Vegas, even if the Mariners aren't playing.

I wouldn't set foot in Oakland in 2024.

Seattle is becoming a lib dump.

A city should have to earn their team.

Oakland hasn't.

And Seattle is failing. But at least most of Seattle is still a beautiful city, for now, unlike Oakland.

Oakland hasn't earned their team? What planet are you from man? 56 years? What the **** are you talking about? GTFOH. I don't know what city you live in now but if you're a Mariners fan, please don't be one anymore. Go be a Dodgers fan. You sound like their kind of fan.

No, if you want a team, your city better thrive, not become a shithole.

[TridentHawk]

I have been trying to find the right words to facilitate how I'm feeling about this. But I think I have. What is happening in Oakland with the Oakland A's to me is nothing short of a crime. To me, that team is being stolen from 56 years of history. Is being stolen from four generations of fans. It's being stolen from an entire city. It's is being stolen by a man who did nothing to earn this team other than get it signed over to him when his daddy died. He didn't have to work hard. He didn't have to grind away at an 8 to 5. He didn't have to work at all. And what does this man do to show his appreciation for his good fortune? He gives millions of fans the finger, while he high tails it to the glitz and glamor of Las Vegas all on their dime. What a bastion of humanitarianism this man is. I don't care that the man's wealthy. I don't care that the man can do whatever he wants because of his bank account. What I care about are the millions of fans that no longer have a piece of civic pride that means the world to them. All in the name of luxury boxes. Have your wealth. Make your money. Enjoy the finer things. That's perfectly fine. But to steal from these people that have done nothing to you except not wanting to foot the bill for the entirety of your palace when you can afford to chip in a bit?... I changed my mind IT IS CRIMINAL. NOTHING SHORT ABOUT IT.

Hiya, welcome on board. Great to have you. Love your passion and your history, it's gonna be a hell of a ride plus educational for me personally listening to your contributions.

I slightly disagree with the four generations though - the team was planted in Oakland in 1968, probably in a similar fashion to how they have been taken out (my homework tonight is to read up on their Philadephia and KC years).

There will have been no life-long As fans there at that time, would there? They are only 9 years older than the Mariners.

At best someone born in the early/mid 70s i.e. our generation could be the first generation Oakland fans and I don't have 3 further generations sat under me just yet and we probably won't for another decade or two.

Yes horrible for any team to be ripped out of their community - but that is the biggest fault of your fabulous American sports. Unless you are the Green Bay Packers there is little to stop greedy owners tearing up history and relocating.

Around the MLB, how many teams are not vulnerable to this kind of stunt? Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Cardinals, Cubs perhaps? Even the Dodgers weren't safe in the old days albeit relocation is incredibly unlikely for them nowadays.

That's the one thing that does worry me about all the clamour for Stanton to sell the team. He is total scum for sure, but once a team changes hands or passed down a family this kind of thing is on the cards. I have often wanted to ask in here about Sonicsgate but I get the feeling that's it's such an elephant in the room of Seattle history that very few people want to open those wounds.

Be careful what we wish for, and that is not an endorsement of our current owners.

Thank you so much. I am very happy to have a place that isn't TwiXtter to have thoughtful discussions. Although I'm beginning to wonder with some of the comments that I've read in this thread. They know who they are.

What I mean by four generations is:

Gen 1 (Fans that came on board when the team came to the Oakland)
Gen 2 (Kids born between the years 1969-1979)
Gen 3 (Kids born between the years 1990-2010)
Gen 4 (Kids born between the years 2019 to now)*

And Gen Four might be pushing it. I will grant you that.

Regardless, 56 years is a long time. Long enough that I'm freaking tearing up while writing this because I feel the pain of all of those millions of fans that had their hearts ripped out.

- 4 World Series titles won by the Oakland A's. FOUR. (The Mariners have been around for 47 years and haven't so much as even played in a World Series)

- 5 of the most iconic players in MLB history now inducted into the HOF as OAKLAND A's
Dennis Eckersley: Inducted in 2004
Rickey Henderson: Inducted in 2009
Rollie Fingers: Inducted in 1992
Catfish Hunter: Inducted in 1987
Reggie Jackson: Inducted in 1993

That is history worth fighting for.
That is history you don't just flush down the toilet
That is history that you don't get to just take with you when you go to a city like Las Vegas that has no history that has no care at all about this franchise and that 90% of the people liviing there are Dodgers fans.

And whoever made the moronic comment about the fans of the team not mattering, and that it's for tourists, and the tourists will go to the games... get the **** outta here with that. Anybody that says that doesn't understand the connection that a baseball team has with its city. Especially one that has multiple World Series championships and multiple Hall of Famers.

[TridentHawk]

I haven't been to Seattle in years for exactly that reason, but I'm very much looking forward to going to games in Las Vegas, even if the Mariners aren't playing.

I wouldn't set foot in Oakland in 2024.

Seattle is becoming a lib dump.

A city should have to earn their team.

Oakland hasn't.

And Seattle is failing. But at least most of Seattle is still a beautiful city, for now, unlike Oakland.

Oakland hasn't earned their team? What planet are you from man? 56 years? What the **** are you talking about? GTFOH. I don't know what city you live in now but if you're a Mariners fan, please don't be one anymore. Go be a Dodgers fan. You sound like their kind of fan.

No, if you want a team, your city better thrive, not become a shithole.

Well that didn't take long. I got to figure out how to block you now. Because if I read anything more from you my **** head is going to explode.

[mostonmike]

I don't understand your definition of a life long fan. I was born in 1952 and so have been a long standing fan of the mariners. I was in fact an Oakland A's fan before the mariners came into existence. I believe there are as legitimate Oakland fans of the A's as any franchise around the country.

Teams aren't going to get moved other than the Rays. Them and the A's were the last of the mohicans. Franchises that hadn't leveraged a new stadium out of their community. That and MLB is running out of communities to use as blackmail to leverage new ballparks out of

Don't forget in Britain, you tend pick your team based on what your family supported, where you are born or where you live and you stick with it whilst your team goes through it's ups and down, quite literally as we have promotion and relegation. Teams don't move around and that might be a concept that's slightly alien and difficult to apprehend to me and I may have misunderstood to some degree, albeit Athletic fans were probably quite sparse in Oakland until they arrived there.

My choice to "be a Mariner" (if I am still accepted as one) included making sure I didn't pick a team that had history in another city. I can't grasp the moving of franchises but if you as a country are going to allow it, don't be shocked when it blows up in your faces as it has with the Athletics.

[Donn Beach]

The mariners are in existence because Seattle's original team, the pilots was moved after a single year of existence, they are now the Milwaukee Brewers. And the mariners were on the verge of getting moved as well. You should find a copy of "Ball Four" by JIm Bouton if you're interested.

[TridentHawk]

56 years isn't a massively long time to be fair. I said i would do some homework and it seems Charlie Finley bought the team in the 60s and touted it to move it to anywhere that would take it. Not exactly a "storied franchise" despite how many World Series they have won.

Came down to Seattle and Oakland. We could have been the Seattle Athletics. Fuck that.

56 years is a hell of a long time for teams in baseball on the West Coast. (Nothing in the US will ever be or seem that old to Brits because you have so many centuries of history). In terms of baseball, 56 years on the East Coast, you're right, not a long time. But it is on the West. Four world championships and five Hall of Famers is nothing to sneeze at, and in fact there's not many teams in baseball outside of a handful that have that kind of pedigree.

I'm glad that you picked The Mariners as your team. I imagine that being from Britain you don't get a lot of TV time with the Mariners so for you to choose them is pretty cool. But I think that you're missing the boat a little bit on the compassion factor for citizens of Oakland. I don't know how sports are in Britain other than your passion for football (not USA football), but I can imagine that if a team like Manchester United for instance, decided to pick up and leave and go to Wales...how would that go down with the people of Manchester? Obviously that's never going to happen and I know this. It's a hypothetical and I'm sure you could probably give a better example, but my point is valid.

[mostonmike]

Thank you so much. I am very happy to have a place that isn't TwiXtter to have thoughtful discussions. Although I'm beginning to wonder with some of the comments that I've read in this thread. They know who they are.

What I mean by four generations is:

Gen 1 (Fans that came on board when the team came to the Oakland)
Gen 2 (Kids born between the years 1969-1979)
Gen 3 (Kids born between the years 1990-2010)
Gen 4 (Kids born between the years 2019 to now)*

And Gen Four might be pushing it. I will grant you that.

Regardless, 56 years is a long time. Long enough that I'm freaking tearing up while writing this because I feel the pain of all of those millions of fans that had their hearts ripped out.

- 4 World Series titles won by the Oakland A's. FOUR. (The Mariners have been around for 47 years and haven't so much as even played in a World Series)

- 5 of the most iconic players in MLB history now inducted into the HOF as OAKLAND A's
Dennis Eckersley: Inducted in 2004
Rickey Henderson: Inducted in 2009
Rollie Fingers: Inducted in 1992
Catfish Hunter: Inducted in 1987
Reggie Jackson: Inducted in 1993

That is history worth fighting for.
That is history you don't just flush down the toilet
That is history that you don't get to just take with you when you go to a city like Las Vegas that has no history that has no care at all about this franchise and that 90% of the people liviing there are Dodgers fans.

And whoever made the moronic comment about the fans of the team not mattering, and that it's for tourists, and the tourists will go to the games... get the **** outta here with that. Anybody that says that doesn't understand the connection that a baseball team has with its city. Especially one that has multiple World Series championships and multiple Hall of Famers.

Cheers again, you will enjoy the debates a bit more though if you do stop with the "get the f*** outta here" and the other one, "What the **** are you talking about? GTFOH. I don't know what city you live in now but if you're a Mariners fan, please don't be one anymore"

We don't tell people not to be Mariners fans. They are Mariners fans, who have been through the same pain and emotional distress as you have. Try and educate them instead like I have taken on board something you said. I understand a little more what has pissed you off about the Oakland relocation because I have read and digested your view.

You also need to do the same with other people's views and quit with the insults. The tourist comment for instance came from "there is nothing but positives for MLB for the relocation". MLB doesn't represent the game or the fans . It wants the value of its product to be enhanced and from that perspective this achieves that with a tourist proposition that put mant more eyes on its product that it wasn't getting in Oakland. It wasn't defending it, nor saying the game is for tourists - just that the entity of MLB has nothing but positives (for them) because of the relocation. They've shit on the Oakland fans, but do MLB or the other teams care? I doubt it.

We don't (or certainly rarely) trade such rhetoric which you are perhaps used to on Twitter. There's no need, other people will have different opinions to you. They are entitled to have them and we probably don't even block each other, I don't know of anyone who has blocked anyone in here. We are a broad church and we take on board and more importantly respect their views, generally.

Wait until you meet Seth in the game threads, we love him but he can be a bit much.

For some reason, this community has become like 20 or 30 mates in the pub and it feels like we have grown up together as we also share stories about our lives. You don't walk out of the pub because "the British guy is being a bit of a dick".

This is such a wonderful place but we trade debate by putting the counter argument and hope the others learn the error of their ways and we actually listen and appreciate the other people's viewpoints even if we think they talk shit.

We all talk shit, and I am sure you are no exception.