So it begins, The official Hot Stove League Thread 2024-25 Offseason

[Seattle or Bust]

From an article on how the Rays have built a history of success. I think a lot of it is having a strategy and sticking to it. If you want to say they lost the trade over 1,5 WAR in it's first season okay. But if you're going to stretch it to they are making desperation moves that you could take advantage of by moving in and clipping premium players I'll question that. That gets into running the entire organization which I think they have been pretty good at, and you need to put a single trade in that context

When the Rays make a trade they need to ensure the return puts them in the best position possible for the future. They do this by targeting the same types of players in their trades:

Developed Prospects
Players who Fill a Major League Need
Specialty Relievers

I think it's sort of a silly narrative that the Rays are the model for how to build out a franchise. Yes, they've had some success with low payrolls... but they're similar to A's in the respect that they usually go like 5 years off, 5 years with rebuilds and contention.

Do I consider that a "history of success?" I guess? Success that makes every move they make uncriticizable? No.

The Rays likely aren't competing in the AL East over the next 3-4 years...

[Donn Beach]

Sure they can be criticized, I might call it questioned. They won a pennant in 2020, division titles in 2020 and 2021 wild card berths, 2019, 2021 and 2023, with team payrolls under $100 mil.You contend they won't be competitive for the next three or four years as if it's evidence of their failure.I would happily take some of that around here.

[Seattle or Bust]

Sure they can be criticized, I might call it questioned. They won a pennant in 2020, division titles in 2020 and 2021 wild card berths, 2019, 2021 and 2023, with team payrolls under $100 mil.You contend they won't be competitive for the next three or four years as if it's evidence of their failure.I would happily take some of that around here.

Where did I call it failure?

I call it the reason why it's not the gold standard of how to build a franchise. It works... but I wouldn't want to be a fan of a team knowing that every decade my team is going to be non-competitive for half of it so the other half can be fun.

[bhofferb]

Sure they can be criticized, I might call it questioned. They won a pennant in 2020, division titles in 2020 and 2021 wild card berths, 2019, 2021 and 2023, with team payrolls under $100 mil.You contend they won't be competitive for the next three or four years as if it's evidence of their failure.I would happily take some of that around here.

Where did I call it failure?

I call it the reason why it's not the gold standard of how to build a franchise. It works... but I wouldn't want to be a fan of a team knowing that every decade my team is going to be non-competitive for half of it so the other half can be fun.

As compared to being a fan of a team that is competitive every quarter century and happy about it...

[tehmc]

Roki Sasaki being posted

https://www.mlb.com/news/roki-sasaki-ma ... ue-posting

This would be a great get and allow us to make a trade of our pitching staff for bats

[Seattle or Bust]

Sure they can be criticized, I might call it questioned. They won a pennant in 2020, division titles in 2020 and 2021 wild card berths, 2019, 2021 and 2023, with team payrolls under $100 mil.You contend they won't be competitive for the next three or four years as if it's evidence of their failure.I would happily take some of that around here.

Where did I call it failure?

I call it the reason why it's not the gold standard of how to build a franchise. It works... but I wouldn't want to be a fan of a team knowing that every decade my team is going to be non-competitive for half of it so the other half can be fun.

As compared to being a fan of a team that is competitive every quarter century and happy about it...

Define competitive... the M's have come within a whiskers chance of the playoffs a lot of times over the past decade.

The only year I can remember since 2014 where the M's stood 0 chance to compete was 2019.

[Donn Beach]

Sure they can be criticized, I might call it questioned. They won a pennant in 2020, division titles in 2020 and 2021 wild card berths, 2019, 2021 and 2023, with team payrolls under $100 mil.You contend they won't be competitive for the next three or four years as if it's evidence of their failure.I would happily take some of that around here.

Where did I call it failure?

I call it the reason why it's not standard of how to build a franchise. It works...I wouldn't want to be a fan of a team knowing that every decade my team is going to be non-competitive for half of it so the other half can be fun.

You would be disappointed if the Mariners had a run like that? Now that buddy is a bold statement lol They spent half a decade competitive for a pennant and then need 3-4 years to do it again with payrolls under $100 mil, and that's not the gold standard. So who's the gold standard, the Dodgers? They are the most successful I'm thinking, but they also a lot of money to spend.

[Seattle or Bust]

Sure they can be criticized, I might call it questioned. They won a pennant in 2020, division titles in 2020 and 2021 wild card berths, 2019, 2021 and 2023, with team payrolls under $100 mil.You contend they won't be competitive for the next three or four years as if it's evidence of their failure.I would happily take some of that around here.

Where did I call it failure?

I call it the reason why it's not standard of how to build a franchise. It works...I wouldn't want to be a fan of a team knowing that every decade my team is going to be non-competitive for half of it so the other half can be fun.

You would be disappointed if the Mariners had a run like that? Now that buddy is a bold statement lol They spent half a decade competitive for a pennant and then need 3-4 years to do it again with payrolls under $100 mil, and that's not the gold standard. So who's the gold standard, the Dodgers? They are the most successful I'm thinking, but they also a lot of money to spend.

Boy, you really have a dumb way of twisting words. Of course I would take a nice 5-year run.

I wouldn't want to follow a team where you know every 5 years a total rebuild has to take place and you're not going to be competitive.

[Donn Beach]

Won a pennant in 2020, division titles in 2020 and 2021, wild card berths 2019, 2021, 2023. I will go with that as my definition. That's not their entire playoff record, it's the recent. If they could repeat it again in three or four years I think would be pretty impressive. Yeah the mariners have had a habit of nearly making the playoffs which could be called competitive but I don't think it touches the Rays version. I would have to go look how they nearly make the playoffs. There's no title for that achievement

[Donn Beach]

Where did I call it failure?

I call it the reason why it's not standard of how to build a franchise. It works...I wouldn't want to be a fan of a team knowing that every decade my team is going to be non-competitive for half of it so the other half can be fun.

You would be disappointed if the Mariners had a run like that? Now that buddy is a bold statement lol They spent half a decade competitive for a pennant and then need 3-4 years to do it again with payrolls under $100 mil, and that's not the gold standard. So who's the gold standard, the Dodgers? They are the most successful I'm thinking, but they also a lot of money to spend.

Boy, you really have a dumb way of twisting words. Of course I would take a nice 5-year run.

I wouldn't want to follow a team where you know every 5 years a total rebuild has to take place and you're not going to be competitive.

Total rebuild, they gave Wonder Franco a $182 mil contact