So it begins, The official Hot Stove League Thread 2024-25 Offseason

[Seattle or Bust]

Won a pennant in 2020, division titles in 2020 and 2021, wild card berths 2019, 2021, 2023. I will go with that as my definition. That's not their entire playoff record, it's the recent. If they could repeat it again in three or four years I think would be pretty impressive. Yeah the mariners have had a habit of nearly making the playoffs which could be called competitive but I don't think it touches the Rays version. I would have to go look how they nearly make the playoffs. There's no title for that achievement

I haven't said it touches the Rays version. I haven't called the M's the gold standard.

I simply like that we do not have to worry about completely non-competitive years that are on purpose.

I would not like being a Rays fan. Their moves can be heavily questioned or criticized. Cabby for Raley was a bad deal for them.

[Donn Beach]

I didn't say you did, the mariners do seem to look at it that way. That the objective is to field teams that are competitive in terms of making the playoffs. There's various kinds of rebuilds and most teams go through them. I had commented on the Cardinals not being one of them. I thought it was interesting, one of the reporters with an article about what seems to be them deciding to do one that it would be the first one he had ever witnessed.

Deal is the kind of rebuild and if it's actually successful. The down to the studs kind that Beane would do is hard on fans. Most teams I don't think do that, like the mariners keeping Haniger through theirs. There's arguments both ways, some would say keeping Haniger was pointless. I think the main deal is it needs to be successful. The white Sox are a pretty good example of a disappointing rebuild. They got one trip to the playoffs in the COVID season and now are back at it again. I really don't know that much about the Rays. I don't think they go about it as brutality as Beane and they are successful. The mariners approach is to avoid having to do it again, sustainability. That seems to be the Seahawks approach as well, always compete. They had a steady run of playoff appearances but the criticism is with a steady stream of pretty mediocre teams. I think I can handle rebuilds if there's confidence in them being successful.

[Pharmabro]

Bad news:
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/11/ ... urner.html

They said get a 2B and a 1B and then have a Moore/Rojas platoon at 3rd. So exactly the same thing as last year .

Rojas had a .688 vs RHP, and an OPS in the .300s vs left. The guy at best is a close to league average bat. You can't run that combo at 3B and seriously try to contend.
Moore vs LHP .229 .352 .410 .762.

FFS don't pay Rojas 4M to be suck. Go get Bohm. Go get a real 2B and go get a 1B: for shits and giggles: Lowe, Yandy, Bohm let Moore be the super utility.

You know the definition of insanity?

[bhofferb]

So here's a question- If you were told that the M's could be guaranteed to win 100 games a year for the next 5nyears, but after that they would be guaranteed to lose 100 a year for the five years after that, do you make the deal?

[Pharmabro]

So here's a question- If you were told that the M's could be guaranteed to win 100 games a year for the next 5nyears, but after that they would be guaranteed to lose 100 a year for the five years after that, do you make the deal?

Yes. But it is usually more like 4 years of suck to completely rebuild but just for the sake of argument, yes.

Look, I think they keep on doing the same 1/2 ass shit. There is 11.3M on the table with dropping trash players they dropped Irias's 5M but it looks like they are keeping.
Dump them
Austin Voth (5.115): $2.2MM (102 ERA+)
Luis Urias (5.014): $5MM The only one so far
Trent Thornton (4.148): $2.1MM (100 ERA+)
Josh Rojas (4.126): $4.3MM (91 OPS+)
Sam Haggerty (4.036): $900K (Injured and expected to miss significant time)
Tayler Saucedo (3.112): $1MM (107 ERA+)
Gabe Speier (2.172): $900K (65 ERA+)
Keep
Randy Arozarena (4.129): $11.7MM
Logan Gilbert (3.144): $8.1MM
Cal Raleigh (3.085): $5.6MM
JT Chargois (5.101): $1.7MM

Rojas in particular grinds my gears. In 142 games 476 PA's he managed to drive in 31 RBI
VS
Jake Burger in 137 games in a down year for him he hit 29 bombs and drove in 76 RBI on a Miami team that hit a lot worse than us. We had a 103 OPS+ they had an 83.

And these fucking morons that run this team are blind to their moronic plan of turning an RBI position into a job share between two guys that should be bench players. Brought in when someone gets plunked in the wrist or crashes into a wall. They should not be getting the combined 917 PA's they got last year but it looks like from these reports that is their plan. Just like it was their plan last year.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results. Sorry for ranting here but I really want to look at a roster and think with health we could beat anybody. And it is there for the taking.

[bpj]

I like the Mariners approach, they just have the consistent issue of coming up short.

They could have added one more player each year and been much better off every time.

They just get to a certain point and they're like, "Nah, we don't need Matt Olson, we're good."

[Donn Beach]

Yeah, they set a goal and in fact have been making it. Their goal is fielding a team year to year that has a legitimate chance of making the playoffs, and they have done it,. The disappointment comes from them only coming close. I don't think dipotos job is in Jeopardy, I think he's built an organization that meets the requirements of the owners. I think if he worked for a different organization he could adjust and do it differently. The wild card is his personality, that might get him fired

[AZOldDawg]

As they say, “Close only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades and dancing”

[D-train]

I just noticed that Jaren Duran has a Monster year with the Red Sox. 6.7 fWAR and 8.7 bWAR and a 129 wRC+. His value is $71M add Woo's is about $50M and Ford's is $21M

Would you do that trade?

[Seattle or Bust]

I just noticed that Jaren Duran has a Monster year with the Red Sox. 6.7 fWAR and 8.7 bWAR and a 129 wRC+. His value is $71M add Woo's is about $50M and Ford's is $21M

Would you do that trade?

His value comes from playing centerfield where we already have a premium defender. He's also just a 129 OPS+ hitter... Raley was a 129 OPS+ last year.

Boston has no incentive to trade him either... he's now the face of the franchise.