Should Dipoto and Hollander be fired?

[Juliooooo]

I think he’s trying to money ball it because of limited funds, and that whoever is in there would be in a similar place. Unless they are willing to have a top 10 payroll, they simply won’t be competitive, unless they get lucky and a bunch of the prospects hit at the right time.

Money Ball worked, or no one would ever talk about it. But you have to be smart with how you spend, Jerry is an idiot. You are telling me that you look at the guys we added to this lineup and thought to yourself....yep, that will probably work out! They eliminated power bats, and tried to explain it away as they struck out too much. But the problem is, the bats they added couldn't hit. Who cares if you don't strike out as much if you also don't hit?

David explains it pretty well. And this isn't even over the entire rebuild. There have been others.

.......they took their limited funds and blew most of it on Solano. Just in concept that was an idiotic signing, a 37 year old who doesn't play defense and in playing half his games at T-Mobile MIGHT hit .250 or so with not much power, and as it turns out he'd already reached that same one-year-too-late point that other players we've acquired have reached. What's especially damning is that we all knew how stupid it was and they did it anyway.

Add to that trading Robbie Ray for Mitch Haniger's corpse, and signing Mitch Garver despite the fact he was 0-32 lifetime at T-Mobile. The common thread here is that these were acquisitions that we all knew were stupid. Seriously, WE knew this but somehow they didn't?

This past offseason was probably the worst one in Mariner history given the golden opportunity they had to make themselves the favorites in the AL. Even some of the later picks in the 1976 expansion draft were better than what we got.

It worked for the time, but teams are using the same formulas so there isn’t anything to exploit right now. What team is winning now with moneyball? 1 team has won a championship the last 14 years that wasn’t the top half of payroll, and they cheated to get there.

[Seattle or Bust]

I think he’s trying to money ball it because of limited funds, and that whoever is in there would be in a similar place. Unless they are willing to have a top 10 payroll, they simply won’t be competitive, unless they get lucky and a bunch of the prospects hit at the right time.

Money Ball worked, or no one would ever talk about it. But you have to be smart with how you spend, Jerry is an idiot. You are telling me that you look at the guys we added to this lineup and thought to yourself....yep, that will probably work out! They eliminated power bats, and tried to explain it away as they struck out too much. But the problem is, the bats they added couldn't hit. Who cares if you don't strike out as much if you also don't hit?

David explains it pretty well. And this isn't even over the entire rebuild. There have been others.

.......they took their limited funds and blew most of it on Solano. Just in concept that was an idiotic signing, a 37 year old who doesn't play defense and in playing half his games at T-Mobile MIGHT hit .250 or so with not much power, and as it turns out he'd already reached that same one-year-too-late point that other players we've acquired have reached. What's especially damning is that we all knew how stupid it was and they did it anyway.

Add to that trading Robbie Ray for Mitch Haniger's corpse, and signing Mitch Garver despite the fact he was 0-32 lifetime at T-Mobile. The common thread here is that these were acquisitions that we all knew were stupid. Seriously, WE knew this but somehow they didn't?

This past offseason was probably the worst one in Mariner history given the golden opportunity they had to make themselves the favorites in the AL. Even some of the later picks in the 1976 expansion draft were better than what we got.

It worked for the time, but teams are using the same formulas so there isn’t anything to exploit right now. What team is winning now with moneyball? 1 team has won a championship the last 14 years that wasn’t the top half of payroll, and they cheated to get there.

Haniger, Garver, Solano, Tellez, Taveras make up $35M of a $148M budget. That's 25% of their allotted payroll.

There's 44 catchers with 50 plate appearances that are worth more than Garver in fWAR.

There's 36 1B's with 50 plate appearances that are worth more than Solano and Tellez.

There's 144 OF's with 50 plate appearances that are worth more than Taveras.

Haniger is sitting on his couch.

Jerry just need to not fuck up THAT badly and this would have been a good team. Money ball could have worked.

[Michael K.]

It worked for the time, but teams are using the same formulas so there isn’t anything to exploit right now. What team is winning now with moneyball? 1 team has won a championship the last 14 years that wasn’t the top half of payroll, and they cheated to get there.

Now I'm very confused. I said he should be fired because he blows money, you seemed to be backing him by saying he was trying to use Money Ball. The dude has straight up lit money on fire with his roster additions, and has done NOTHING to improve teams that were at the end of a rebuild four years ago. He needs to go. Whether he used Money Ball or not, he sucks at his job.

Money Ball was using an On Base Percentage guy like Hatteburg at 1st Base, it was a discount on Perez, and they poo poo'd defense at 1st Base. Money ball is not adding dogshit like Solano and Garver. It's not adding Haniger, Santos, Urias Kolten Wong, AJ Pollock or Tommy La Stella either.

His best moves have been Suarez and Hernandez, and he got rid of both of them. Not to mention, Suarez was a throw in for another wasted addition in Jesse Winker. Winker was the guy they wanted and they got lucky!

[Sibelius Hindemith]

Who says Wilson hasn't aided Cal in hitting like 1970's Johnny Bench?

You can't just always detract from the guy by solely pointing out his shortcomings.

The notion of Dan Wilson being able to help anyone hit major league pitching seems like a stretch.

[Seattle or Bust]

Who says Wilson hasn't aided Cal in hitting like 1970's Johnny Bench?

You can't just always detract from the guy by solely pointing out his shortcomings.

The notion of Dan Wilson being able to help anyone hit major league pitching seems like a stretch.

It may not be mechanical, but mental.

You don't know the conversations he has... the tone he sets.

You give the M's this exact roster with Servais and they're 10 games under .500 with reports of fighting in the locker room.

[AlvinDavisFan21]

I just wish DiPoto and Hollander came out and publicly said they are tired of losing as much as the fans. We aren't hearing that though. Just more of their rhetoric and Aaron Goldsmith getting on TV peddling Suites and telling us how great things are.

[D-train]

I absolutely HATE the hire of Dan Wilson. Practically nepotism. Give me a fucking break.

Jerry came out recently and said he has the "freedom" and "resources" from ownership to fix a few needs on the club at the trade deadline.

I'm not holding my breath based on his track record.

Agreed - its becoming painful to watch Dan coach the team... he was hired for all the 50–80-year-old fans who still reminisce about the 95 team.

Agreed, but this was a Jerry save his ass move. By not only making him the interim manager, but hiring him for the future as well, he ensured that he wouldn't be fired. A new GM is going to want his own manager, and if Dan already had a job? It makes things harder. Jerry knew what he was doing by giving him the job. Hire him as the interim, then do an actual job search in the off season, and if Dan is the best for the job? Then give it to him. That didn't secure Jerry's job, so he didn't do it.

Awesome point.

[Captain 97]

I think he’s trying to money ball it because of limited funds, and that whoever is in there would be in a similar place. Unless they are willing to have a top 10 payroll, they simply won’t be competitive, unless they get lucky and a bunch of the prospects hit at the right time.

Money Ball worked, or no one would ever talk about it. But you have to be smart with how you spend, Jerry is an idiot. You are telling me that you look at the guys we added to this lineup and thought to yourself....yep, that will probably work out! They eliminated power bats, and tried to explain it away as they struck out too much. But the problem is, the bats they added couldn't hit. Who cares if you don't strike out as much if you also don't hit?

David explains it pretty well. And this isn't even over the entire rebuild. There have been others.

.......they took their limited funds and blew most of it on Solano. Just in concept that was an idiotic signing, a 37 year old who doesn't play defense and in playing half his games at T-Mobile MIGHT hit .250 or so with not much power, and as it turns out he'd already reached that same one-year-too-late point that other players we've acquired have reached. What's especially damning is that we all knew how stupid it was and they did it anyway.

Add to that trading Robbie Ray for Mitch Haniger's corpse, and signing Mitch Garver despite the fact he was 0-32 lifetime at T-Mobile. The common thread here is that these were acquisitions that we all knew were stupid. Seriously, WE knew this but somehow they didn't?

This past offseason was probably the worst one in Mariner history given the golden opportunity they had to make themselves the favorites in the AL. Even some of the later picks in the 1976 expansion draft were better than what we got.

It worked for the time, but teams are using the same formulas so there isn’t anything to exploit right now. What team is winning now with moneyball? 1 team has won a championship the last 14 years that wasn’t the top half of payroll, and they cheated to get there.

If the goal is to win championships or even to win playoff games, "Moneyball" never worked. Billy Beane's first season as the A's GM was 1998. He has been there for 28 years and they have won 2 playoff series. As bad as the M's have been, they have won 3 playoff series in that same time frame.

[Michael K.]

If the goal is to win championships or even to win playoff games, "Moneyball" never worked. Billy Beane's first season as the A's GM was 1998. He has been there for 28 years and they have won 2 playoff series. As bad as the M's have been, they have won 3 playoff series in that same time frame.

I get that, but I imagine if you compared payrolls, they are even cheaper than we are.

[Juliooooo]

It worked for the time, but teams are using the same formulas so there isn’t anything to exploit right now. What team is winning now with moneyball? 1 team has won a championship the last 14 years that wasn’t the top half of payroll, and they cheated to get there.

Now I'm very confused. I said he should be fired because he blows money, you seemed to be backing him by saying he was trying to use Money Ball. The dude has straight up lit money on fire with his roster additions, and has done NOTHING to improve teams that were at the end of a rebuild four years ago. He needs to go. Whether he used Money Ball or not, he sucks at his job.

Money Ball was using an On Base Percentage guy like Hatteburg at 1st Base, it was a discount on Perez, and they poo poo'd defense at 1st Base. Money ball is not adding dogshit like Solano and Garver. It's not adding Haniger, Santos, Urias Kolten Wong, AJ Pollock or Tommy La Stella either.

His best moves have been Suarez and Hernandez, and he got rid of both of them. Not to mention, Suarez was a throw in for another wasted addition in Jesse Winker. Winker was the guy they wanted and they got lucky!

He’s trying to get production from multiple players in the 5-10 million range, and it’s just wasted money. Increase the payroll by 40 million, and get 3 25-30 million dollar guys instead. Regardless, if mariners won’t spent more enough to get in the top 10 payroll, then they are going to have to rely on their prospects.

He’s trying to squeeze a little bit of juice out of average players with big flaws.

Are those players working out, no, but I’m not sure anyone is going to put together anything that much better with a similar payroll.

About moneyball, I think team are valuing the OBP, and other things more now than they did 25 years ago, so it’s harder to find the value that Beane got. Jerry’s version is finding flawed players and hoping to get theirs above average performance, and it’s failing miserably