The M's Rotation is smoke and Mirrors

[Juliooooo]

Gilbert, Kirby, Woo and Miller were productive pitchers almost from the get-go and there was reason to think some of them would be elite by now, but (other than maybe Woo) they haven't taken the next step. I'm tired of hearing how great this organization is at developing pitchers because, once they get here, they don't seem to improve.

Miller in the 4th, woo in the 5th and Evans in the 11th. They are at least good at identifying them.

[DavidGee24]

We saw it on display this weekend, Castillo and Kirby both imploding. Castillo in particular is horrible on the road.

Woo is the only one pulling his weight this season. Gilbert is especially maddening because he should have an ERA down around two but for some reason he gives up big hits and/or falls apart when one little thing goes wrong.

Pitching splits are fine as long as they're not lopsided (which they are) and the hitters experience similar splits, which on this road trip thus far they clearly haven't.

Skubal was mentioned earlier, but imagine Randy Johnson pitching at SafeCo back when it first opened and he was even more in his prime.

[Lamda]

Its odd for sure - never could have predicted they would fall off a cliff as they have this year (Gilbert, Kirby, Miller)... makes deciding what to do this offseason difficult. Do you sell when their value will take a hit or assume they will rebound. If you can trade them for a legit Ace then do it - or an elite bat... but don't just trade them for garbage.

[bpj]

Pat myself on the back time.

Some people didn't want to hear it when I called this rotation a T-Mobile mirage last year and said they're an average pitching staff.

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Also had Woo pegged as our ace before the season started.

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[DavidGee24]

Its odd for sure - never could have predicted they would fall off a cliff as they have this year (Gilbert, Kirby, Miller)... makes deciding what to do this offseason difficult. Do you sell when their value will take a hit or assume they will rebound. If you can trade them for a legit Ace then do it - or an elite bat... but don't just trade them for garbage.

The thing about pitching is that it's much more fickle than hitting. These five guys could well do next year what they did last year...or they could be worse than they are this year. There are HOFers who in the middle of their careers had a stinker of a season, a great example being Steve Carlton of 1973, right after his huge 1972 season.

Four of our five are young and merit the benefit of the doubt. I think we should stick with them.

[Donn Beach]

Its odd for sure - never could have predicted they would fall off a cliff as they have this year (Gilbert, Kirby, Miller)... makes deciding what to do this offseason difficult. Do you sell when their value will take a hit or assume they will rebound. If you can trade them for a legit Ace then do it - or an elite bat... but don't just trade them for garbage.

The thing about pitching is that it's much more fickle than hitting. These five guys could well do next year what they did last year...or they could be worse than they are this year. There are HOFers who in the middle of their careers had a stinker of a season, a great example being Steve Carlton of 1973, right after his huge 1972 season.

Four of our five are young and merit the benefit of the doubt. I think we should stick with them.

and the injuries, have to take that into account

[GL_Storm]

Castillo's pitches have all degraded, especially his changeup, which used to be elite but is now average-ish. His four-seam fastball is still pretty good, which explains why he throws it so much. But without the plus changeup, he doesn't really have a weapon vs. lefties, who are just destroying him this year.

[Michael K.]

Castillo's pitches have all degraded, especially his changeup, which used to be elite but is now average-ish. His four-seam fastball is still pretty good, which explains why he throws it so much. But without the plus changeup, he doesn't really have a weapon vs. lefties, who are just destroying him this year.

Similar to Felix. He started losing Velo on the FB and refused to admit it, and as his FB slowed, his changeup seemed to increase in velocity. Bad combo...and his pride would never let him become a Pitcher instead of someone who over powered hitters. Game over.

[Donn Beach]

Castillo's pitches have all degraded, especially his changeup, which used to be elite but is now average-ish. His four-seam fastball is still pretty good, which explains why he throws it so much. But without the plus changeup, he doesn't really have a weapon vs. lefties, who are just destroying him this year.

Similar to Felix. He started losing Velo on the FB and refused to admit it, and as his FB slowed, his changeup seemed to increase in velocity. Bad combo...and his pride would never let him become a Pitcher instead of someone who over powered hitters. Game over.

sorry but that just isn't accurate, his velocity had been reducing for years when he was still an effective pitcher. He was using his changeup effectively, which is very much being a pitcher. What he finally lost was the ability to locate consistently. He also didn't trust the Mariners coaching, they were replacing pitching coaches constantly during his career. That's where he got the reputation for being difficult to coach, and I don't blame him

[D-train]

I would try to trade Castillo and Kirby for a 1B and 3B. Sign a free agent starter or 2 and resign Gilbert.

Woo
Gilbert
Miller
Evans
FA
Hancock

Upcoming:
Cjintje
Anderson
Sloan
Morales

Morales is sucking again. Cjintje hasn't been great. Anderson hasn't thrown a pitch as a pro and Sloan is a baby. Who are these 1Bs and 3Bs that are going to be available to be traded that weren't available at the deadline?