some issues in Arizona

[Pharmabro]

For context:

I read about the Club house issues and Seattle landing spot and the writer had the package as:

Gilbert 78.7 M, Ford 19.1M, Arroyo 22.1M = 120M
Na

M's Gilbert is one of our top pitchers for the now. The DBacks IMHOp. I think they retool for one year.

DBs: They have 2 good starters Burns, Nelson, 3 good Position players Corbin C. is their best and not much else. Gilbert has 2 years of CC. He would be a waste unless you think they resign Naylor, Geno, and some really good other players. M. Kelly, a couple of good BP SU/CL. I think they take a 1-year step-back.

Again, I don't think you can value Ketel in that 100-million-dollar range of surplus value.

[GL_Storm]

For context:

I read about the Club house issues and Seattle landing spot and the write had the package as:

Gilbert 78.7 M, Ford 19.1M, Arroyo 22.1M = 120M
Na

M's Gilbert is one of our top pitchers for the now. The DBacks IMHOp. I think they retool for one year.

DBs: They have 2 good starters Burns, Nelson, 3 good Position players Corbin C. is their best and not much else. Gilbert has 2 years of CC. He would be a waste unless you think they resign Naylor, Geno, and some really good other players. M. Kelly, a couple of good BP SU/CL. I think they take a 1-year step-back.

Again, I don't think you can value Ketel in that 100-million-dollar range of surplus value.

I'm not following this at all. I can't figure it out.

[Seattle or Bust]

For context:

I read about the Club house issues and Seattle landing spot and the write had the package as:

Gilbert 78.7 M, Ford 19.1M, Arroyo 22.1M = 120M
Na

M's Gilbert is one of our top pitchers for the now. The DBacks IMHOp. I think they retool for one year.

DBs: They have 2 good starters Burns, Nelson, 3 good Position players Corbin C. is their best and not much else. Gilbert has 2 years of CC. He would be a waste unless you think they resign Naylor, Geno, and some really good other players. M. Kelly, a couple of good BP SU/CL. I think they take a 1-year step-back.

Again, I don't think you can value Ketel in that 100-million-dollar range of surplus value.

I'm not following this at all. I can't figure it out.

He is saying the DBacks are re-tooling so b/c of the clubhouse issues and his aging contract, they should trade Marte to the Mariners for Logan Gilbert, Harry Ford, and Michael Arroyo if BTV is accurate, which he doesn't believe.

He thinks the M's are wasting Gilbert if the M's don't re-sign Geno and Naylor or "other good players" so they should trade him.

[Seattle or Bust]

Over the last 5 years JP has averaged over 3.5 WAR per year and a 107 ERA+ and is owed 12M. The last time MLTC did a JP trade, and he was at 28.9M With just 1 year remaining? 15 to 20M

AZ is doing a little mini rebuild or re-imagine JD style. JP has no risk and is a rental who has the upside of gathering more prospects and JP hitting in a high-altitude bandbox in a contract year?

Why and why not. JP could play SS and Ketel 3B or the other way around. at least for year 1. Then, whoever comes up as the SS out of (Young, Colt, Felnin, and to a wider extent Rivas, Bliss, Pete, Arroyo,) I know some of those guys are further out than 2027, pegged as 2B, etc, etc.

Ketel at his age does not have 100M in surplus value. He can play 2B or LF now. He could convert to a slightly above average range - armed 3B.

Az gets Felnin 19.7M, Cijintje 16.7M, Logan Evans 10.1 M, Luke Stevenson C 19M no MLBTC value yet but he is ranked 1 spot below Felnin. On Luke he was the 3rd ranked catcher picked the draft drafted 1 behind the 2nd who was ranked 1 spot in front of him so basically the #2A and 2B both were 50 point overall prospects. Behind #1 11th overall ranked 55-point C Ike Irish. That is 64.5M and 4 top 100 types.

I just don't see going any higher than that. He could play 2B next year and move Young to SS, JP to 3rd. You could ship off JP as part of the package which would increase the outgoing to 80-85M and count on Ketel/ Young on 2 out of 2B, SS, 3B. The 3rd position you play Bliss, Rivas, or maybe Arroyo.

I just think after a couple of years Ketel is a below average defender at 2B, SS, 3B, LF, or is a DH.

I don't know if at age 32 given his contract, clubhouse, and everything else do you value him like that.

What do you guys think?

I wouldn't mind it.

I don't see the Mariners doing it.

Nobody is arguing that Ketel isn't a good player. Adding a 33 year old with 5 years left on a large contract is the literal opposite of what they do.

[Pharmabro]

For context:

I read about the Club house issues and Seattle landing spot and the write had the package as:

Gilbert 78.7 M, Ford 19.1M, Arroyo 22.1M = 120M
Na

M's Gilbert is one of our top pitchers for the now. The DBacks IMHOp. I think they retool for one year.

DBs: They have 2 good starters Burns, Nelson, 3 good Position players Corbin C. is their best and not much else. Gilbert has 2 years of CC. He would be a waste unless you think they resign Naylor, Geno, and some really good other players. M. Kelly, a couple of good BP SU/CL. I think they take a 1-year step-back.

Again, I don't think you can value Ketel in that 100-million-dollar range of surplus value.

I'm not following this at all. I can't figure it out.

You kind of have follow the whole thread.
Starting with this:
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-p ... itting-mlb

Namely, people call JP slow. We say he is a weak defender now at SS. But he is actually faster than Ketel. Ketel has a limited time where he can actually play in the field at all. In a few years he will be a DH or a below average defender at 2B, LF, or whatever.

Ketel does not have 100 million in surplus value.

Trading Gilbert would put a huge empty spot in our rotation for 2026. Meaning robbing Peter to pay Paul.

For Az. Gilbert only has 2 years of control at high rates. So, he is not a fit for them unless they go huge in FA: Grabbing multiple high-leverage arms, at least 1 f not 2 good starters, and multiple good position players.

I originally was responding SOB and the 22M/year thing. I thought near 100M in surplus value was fair. I was wrong. I looked at baseball savant and he is a 1 tool player. All bat.

I'd maybe do something like 1/2 that value at most.

[ddraig]

I'd love to have him as a 2B. JP the better fielder, Marte the better bat. But of course the M's already are loaded with good bats that play 2B in the minors! (Sarc.)

[Seattle or Bust]

For context:

I read about the Club house issues and Seattle landing spot and the write had the package as:

Gilbert 78.7 M, Ford 19.1M, Arroyo 22.1M = 120M
Na

M's Gilbert is one of our top pitchers for the now. The DBacks IMHOp. I think they retool for one year.

DBs: They have 2 good starters Burns, Nelson, 3 good Position players Corbin C. is their best and not much else. Gilbert has 2 years of CC. He would be a waste unless you think they resign Naylor, Geno, and some really good other players. M. Kelly, a couple of good BP SU/CL. I think they take a 1-year step-back.

Again, I don't think you can value Ketel in that 100-million-dollar range of surplus value.

I'm not following this at all. I can't figure it out.

You kind of have follow the whole thread.
Starting with this:
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-p ... itting-mlb

Namely, people call JP slow. We say he is a weak defender now at SS. But he is actually faster than Ketel. Ketel has a limited time where he can actually play in the field at all. In a few years he will be a DH or a below average defender at 2B, LF, or whatever.

Ketel does not have 100 million in surplus value.

Trading Gilbert would put a huge empty spot in our rotation for 2026. Meaning robbing Peter to pay Paul.

For Az. Gilbert only has 2 years of control at high rates. So, he is not a fit for them unless they go huge in FA: Grabbing multiple high-leverage arms, at least 1 f not 2 good starters, and multiple good position players.

I originally was responding SOB and the 22M/year thing. I thought near 100M in surplus value was fair. I was wrong. I looked at baseball savant and he is a 1 tool player. All bat.

I'd maybe do something like 1/2 that value at most.

It's just very scattered thoughts dude.

Gilbert is a fit regardless of whether they add good players or not. I'm sure their hope is Gilbert can be extended.

If they were to trade him, it likely wouldn't be for someone on an aging contract.

You're right that BTV likely has him well overvalued.

[Pharmabro]

It is not supposed to be a dissertation. I literally was just taking a public walk through mut thoughts on the process. I was shocked to see that Ketel has gone from being a fast dude in the 91st percentile to where he is at now. He has a below average arm as well. When I see short stop and centerfield listed as his positions I think he should be well above average if not elite in both of those but he is not.

It is kinda funny to post on this forum. If I throw out a handful of bullit points and say eh. I don’t think he has 100 million in excess value and then only way I would come close is a volume of prospects which would avoid what I consider to be “clutching my pearls”.

I get people coming out of the woodwork with suggestions of a Grammarly subscriptions, and where is the proper format with an intro, 3 supporting paragraphs and a conclusion.

It is a sports forum. In my humble opinion this is at the level of texts between friends. This is not a formal affair at all.

I have my share of critical assessments of peoples posts on here. I tend to try to bite my tongue most of the time. But on occasion I piss someone off by giving this as a reponce:



Or

No

But whatever floats your boat. Anchors aweigh. And sail on to victory!

[Millikin]

It is a sports forum. In my humble opinion this is at the level of texts between friends. This is not a formal affair at all.

I like to think of it as dudes sitting at bar watching a game, which makes the super-serious angry people an annoyance.

If it actually was a bar and someone was jumping on everything I said to correct me or getting angry because the centerfielder smiles too much, I'd move to another table or find a friendlier bar.

[Seattle or Bust]

It is not supposed to be a dissertation. I literally was just taking a public walk through mut thoughts on the process. I was shocked to see that Ketel has gone from being a fast dude in the 91st percentile to where he is at now. He has a below average arm as well. When I see short stop and centerfield listed as his positions I think he should be well above average if not elite in both of those but he is not.

It is kinda funny to post on this forum. If I throw out a handful of bullit points and say eh. I don’t think he has 100 million in excess value and then only way I would come close is a volume of prospects which would avoid what I consider to be “clutching my pearls”.

I get people coming out of the woodwork with suggestions of a Grammarly subscriptions, and where is the proper format with an intro, 3 supporting paragraphs and a conclusion.

It is a sports forum. In my humble opinion this is at the level of texts between friends. This is not a formal affair at all.

I have my share of critical assessments of peoples posts on here. I tend to try to bite my tongue most of the time. But on occasion I piss someone off by giving this as a reponce:



Or

No

But whatever floats your boat. Anchors aweigh. And sail on to victory!

This would be easier to make sense of.

It's one sentence. It describes your point.