Dilly is a Ranger?

[Michael K.]

I was just thinking about this post, realize what the Brewers are doing? Seattle on steroids, the number one team in MLB on a $108.8 mil budget

And to sustain it? I bet they add payroll, or don't continue to win.

[Michael K.]

Totally ignoring defense and the positions they played which is dumb, Buckner had a career OPS+ of 100. Dylan finished with 97 and was at 100 before his diabolical slump. They were basically equally productive hitters despite Dylan's terrible BA because he had a far higher walk and HR rate.

Again, two outs in the 9th and we need a hit to win it....you'd be for Dilly hitting for Billy because they had similar OPS+? Sorry, some of these stats were litteraly just made so people on these chat boards could talk. I watched both of those guys play baseball, and there isn't one single instance in my life I would ever say Dilly is a similar performer at the plate than Buckner.

You ignored everything thing I said and found another metric that fit your narrative. One guy lead the league in hitting and doubles, had multiple double digit HR seasons and multiple 30 or more double seasons, including hitting just under 50 and over 40 two other times. The other is Dilly Moore.

[D-train]

Totally ignoring defense and the positions they played which is dumb, Buckner had a career OPS+ of 100. Dylan finished with 97 and was at 100 before his diabolical slump. They were basically equally productive hitters despite Dylan's terrible BA because he had a far higher walk and HR rate.

Again, two outs in the 9th and we need a hit to win it....you'd be for Dilly hitting for Billy because they had similar OPS+? Sorry, some of these stats were litteraly just made so people on these chat boards could talk. I watched both of those guys play baseball, and there isn't one single instance in my life I would ever say Dilly is a similar performer at the plate than Buckner.

You ignored everything thing I said and found another metric that fit your narrative. One guy lead the league in hitting and doubles, had multiple double digit HR seasons and multiple 30 or more double seasons, including hitting just under 50 and over 40 two other times. The other is Dilly Moore.

In that situation I would obviously go with Buckner. But what % of PAs during the season occur with two outs in the 9th needing a hit? OBP% and SLG% have been around since the 1800s. OPS+ just adjusts for ballpark and what era the player played. Dylan played at T Mobile and Buckner played at Wrigley and Fenway. Buckner played during a more hitter friendly era than now when average starters are throwing in the mid 90s and half the relievers can touch 100mph

[Donn Beach]

I was just thinking about this post, realize what the Brewers are doing? Seattle on steroids, the number one team in MLB on a $108.8 mil budget

And to sustain it? I bet they add payroll, or don't continue to win.

Well they have been winning, this will be their seventh trip to the playoffs in the last ten years I believe. its interesting, they play what's called the check game. Its basically if you say something to draw attention to yourself you get a check. They have a pretty strong culture there, they really fly under the radar.

The Mets poached their gm, David Stearns, he was replaced by Arnold who was promoted within their organization. I don't know but seems like Arnold could be having even more success than Stearns did

"[General manager] Matt Arnold was a two-time defending champion. If he said something about a player like, 'We drafted him in Tampa,' that was a check."

Even owner Mark Attanasio isn't off-limits.

"He would come in just off the plane with his Milwaukee Brewers stuff on," Murphy recalled. "'Huh, you wanted everyone to know you're with the Brewers, wearing your stuff in public?' That's a check. His son even got a check when he had to go up into a suite in San Francisco because it was too cold."

The point of the game exemplifies the concerted effort across the organization to align the different departments, so every voice is heard and valued -- and the game makes it clear to everyone that making the team better is more important than who gets the credit.

"The Check Game is a really important game inside the clubhouse and the culture and the ecosystem of the team," Brewers play-by-play announcer Brian Anderson said. "It's a little bit of a borderline shaming game, so if you're in it for yourself, you're going to get a check and you're going to be on that board.

"No one wants to be on that board."

https://www.espn.co.uk/mlb/story/_/id/4 ... powerhouse

[Michael K.]

I was just thinking about this post, realize what the Brewers are doing? Seattle on steroids, the number one team in MLB on a $108.8 mil budget

And to sustain it? I bet they add payroll, or don't continue to win.

Well they have been winning, this will be their seventh trip to the playoffs in the last ten years I believe. its interesting, they play what's called the check game. Its basically if you say something to draw attention to yourself you get a check. They have a pretty strong culture there, they really fly under the radar.

The Mets poached their gm, David Stearns, he was replaced by Arnold who was promoted within their organization. I don't know but seems like Arnold could be having even more success than Stearns did

"[General manager] Matt Arnold was a two-time defending champion. If he said something about a player like, 'We drafted him in Tampa,' that was a check."

Even owner Mark Attanasio isn't off-limits.

"He would come in just off the plane with his Milwaukee Brewers stuff on," Murphy recalled. "'Huh, you wanted everyone to know you're with the Brewers, wearing your stuff in public?' That's a check. His son even got a check when he had to go up into a suite in San Francisco because it was too cold."

The point of the game exemplifies the concerted effort across the organization to align the different departments, so every voice is heard and valued -- and the game makes it clear to everyone that making the team better is more important than who gets the credit.

"The Check Game is a really important game inside the clubhouse and the culture and the ecosystem of the team," Brewers play-by-play announcer Brian Anderson said. "It's a little bit of a borderline shaming game, so if you're in it for yourself, you're going to get a check and you're going to be on that board.

"No one wants to be on that board."

https://www.espn.co.uk/mlb/story/_/id/4 ... powerhouse

Certainly not saying they have done a poor job. Just not sure how sustainable that model is anymore. I'd love to believe they can have a middle of the road payroll and continue to be WS contenders.

Speaking of WS contention. The Brewers have made 6 playoff appearances in 7 years. That is something this fan base wouldn't know a damn thing about. But, they also lost their first playoff series in every year but one. They last won a playoff series in 2018 when they swept the Rockies before losing to the Dodgers in 7. They've gone 2 and 10 in the playoffs the following six years, missing the playoffs all together in 2022.

Obviously you have to make the playoffs to win a WS, but they aren't exactly doing anything once they get there.

[Michael K.]

In that situation I would obviously go with Buckner. But what % of PAs during the season occur with two outs in the 9th needing a hit? OBP% and SLG% have been around since the 1800s. OPS+ just adjusts for ballpark and what era the player played. Dylan played at T Mobile and Buckner played at Wrigley and Fenway. Buckner played during a more hitter friendly era than now when average starters are throwing in the mid 90s and half the relievers can touch 100mph

This is useless. When J Rod couldn't hit for shit, people were using WAR for why he was almost elite. His offensive stats had him as low as 100th in many rather important things like OPS, Slugging and On Base. If WAR does that? I aint interested. If you can find a stat that says that Dillon Moore is the equal to Bill Buckner? Same thing, I want nothing to do with that Stat. Number geeks that need something to do. It's silly.

When you watch baseball games, and see these guys actually play the game. You are going to tell me that if you are putting together a roster, and you only can have one to be in your lineup every day...you chose Dilly?

[Donn Beach]

And to sustain it? I bet they add payroll, or don't continue to win.

Well they have been winning, this will be their seventh trip to the playoffs in the last ten years I believe. its interesting, they play what's called the check game. Its basically if you say something to draw attention to yourself you get a check. They have a pretty strong culture there, they really fly under the radar.

The Mets poached their gm, David Stearns, he was replaced by Arnold who was promoted within their organization. I don't know but seems like Arnold could be having even more success than Stearns did

"[General manager] Matt Arnold was a two-time defending champion. If he said something about a player like, 'We drafted him in Tampa,' that was a check."

Even owner Mark Attanasio isn't off-limits.

"He would come in just off the plane with his Milwaukee Brewers stuff on," Murphy recalled. "'Huh, you wanted everyone to know you're with the Brewers, wearing your stuff in public?' That's a check. His son even got a check when he had to go up into a suite in San Francisco because it was too cold."

The point of the game exemplifies the concerted effort across the organization to align the different departments, so every voice is heard and valued -- and the game makes it clear to everyone that making the team better is more important than who gets the credit.

"The Check Game is a really important game inside the clubhouse and the culture and the ecosystem of the team," Brewers play-by-play announcer Brian Anderson said. "It's a little bit of a borderline shaming game, so if you're in it for yourself, you're going to get a check and you're going to be on that board.

"No one wants to be on that board."

https://www.espn.co.uk/mlb/story/_/id/4 ... powerhouse

Certainly not saying they have done a poor job. Just not sure how sustainable that model is anymore. I'd love to believe they can have a middle of the road payroll and continue to be WS contenders.

Speaking of WS contention. The Brewers have made 6 playoff appearances in 7 years. That is something this fan base wouldn't know a damn thing about. But, they also lost their first playoff series in every year but one. They last won a playoff series in 2018 when they swept the Rockies before losing to the Dodgers in 7. They've gone 2 and 10 in the playoffs the following six years, missing the playoffs all together in 2022.

Obviously you have to make the playoffs to win a WS, but they aren't exactly doing anything once they get there.

Yeah, this season will will be interesting. They have consistently made the playoffs, and now they have perhaps their strongest team yet to take to the playoffs. So its not like the model is fading, they missed their window. The fact is this is a Dipoto wet dream. This is what he promotes. But its complicated, and what's interesting is its not just about analytics. It's not just crunching numbers better than the other teams. I am confident the Brewers are number crunchers but the key is culture. So in that sense its kinda old school, something that can't be analyzed with a computer

[DavidGee24]

Good point, he hit .178 at home with a .623 OPS, just sickeningly awful production compared to .228 on the road with a .752 OPS. Surprising that a guy like him after 5 years wouldn't hit free agency, but he obviously loved Seattle.

Players are under club control for 6 years after their first call up. Dylan signed a 4 year deal after two years to avoid arbitration and give up ONE YEAR of free agency. Instead of becoming a FA in 2025, he will be an FA in 2026. Players do this for the security of getting some immediate cash. Teams do it to get some of those FA years on the cheap.

I actually think this aspect of roster management is misunderstood by a lot of people. This is why the prospects are so important. When one of them hits, you are in a position to offer them a contract when they are in year 2 and no other team can do that. For the team in control of the player, they c an offer an extension. They can negotiate in year 1 for Julio, year 2 for Dylan, etc. Other teams have to wait for FA. Players don't want to risk injury. They want to lock up a few million. So, you can easily get a player on the cheap til they are like 28 years old basically right at their peak. This is why you don't have to spend tons of money to win a championship. This is why teams can be outside the top 10 in payroll and win the trophy. It would be impossible otherwise in a league without a salary cap.

Good point, it got him financial security. Reminds me of Kevin Kouzmanoff, who I played a season of softball with in I believe 2013 or 2014 while he was still an active big-leaguer. His first four seasons were successful, but in his fifth season he started having back problems so he lost out on the chance to enter free agency and make close to ten million a year (he made 4.7 million in his fifth year). I'll bet he would have liked to have that extra year like Dilly had.

[D-train]

I think if you put Dylan in Wrigley or Fenway in the 70s and 80s he would be just about as productive offensively as Buckner in terms of OPS. And he brings positional versatility and good defense that puts him over the top. I will concede that he has never done it playing every day and he might get exposed but usually when guys play every day it is much easier to maintain their timing.

Buckner was pretty solid but I think he would have had a much shorter career if GMs had access to advanced stats back then. He put up -2.9 WAR his last 7 seasons.

[DanielVogelbach]

I am sure you are right about casual fans having no idea about this just like I didn't when I was a kid. But explaining it on a Baseball Forum is like explaining how Batting average is calculated. Everyone here is well aware of team control.

The impact of being able to exclusively negotiate with the young players can't be underemphasized. Unless they are a Scott Boras client, then you can almost always buy out a few years of free agency.

I'm only coming back to it based on sentiment expressed along the lines of "fuck the farm" and spending is too low.