Around the League

[Donn Beach]

Holy shit the went 4-13 last season an you think PC and Geno are going to get them to 9 or 10 wins. Literally NOBODY with a fucking brain thought that.

Fuck you,. I never said I expected hiring PC would get them to the playoffs, go find where I said that. I said the mood with pundits was supportive of the Raiders off season moves, more supportive than the mood with the seahawks.

Here's Bill Barnell with a mid-season report card on preseason moves. I can't paste from it, go to the Raiders item if you want to bother. He starts out, "what can I say. I was optimistic about the arrival of Pete Carroll and Geno Smith" What reason would there be to be optimistic if you don't think there's a chance to make the playoffs?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/466 ... arnwell#lv

Personally it seemed odd, mainly because of the division they are in. I could see hiring Pete for some star power with the other coaching personalities there but I didn't really understand the direction. But I don't follow the Raiders

Sorry I shouldn't have said "YOU" but when you change HCs and QBs to a 4-13 team it is a rebuild. Just because they were optimistic doesn't mean they thought they were a contending team. Vegas liked the Hawks chances better than the Raiders. The smart money was on the Hawks been a better team.

Okay YOU in the general sense . I brought it up at the time, the heat it put on JS if Pete could win more games and it seems to me as I remember it, that perception included betting lines. I feel like trying to find those posts again . I remember investigating the raiders a bit, trying to figure out if he had a team, didn't seem like it.

[Donn Beach]

Okay here's one, this is the expected points added.

Sobering NFL projection puts Seahawks near the bottom, Raiders on top

There are a handful of exceptions, but by and large the national media hates what the Seattle Seahawks have done this offseason. They particularly don't like the change at quarterback, which saw Seattle swap out Geno Smith for Sam Darnold - which many analysts see as a downgrade.

While we still disagree with that assessment based on what we saw from Darnold during most of the 2024 campaign - it is difficult to argue with some harsh numbers that have emerged in the wake of the big move. For example, a chart from The Athletic which shows expected points added during the offseason has Pete Carroll, Geno Smith and the Las Vegas Raiders on top at +35.8 points. Meanwhile, the Seahawks are near the bottom at -23.3

https://cw39.com/sports/sports-illustra ... rs-on-top/

[Donn Beach]

In my mind, this is up there with the 2012 draft. JS had a great off season, but what really makes it sweet is how it was skewered by the press around the league

[Michael K.]

One article pretending the Raiders were going to contend this year isn't going to change the narative. No one that understands the game expected them to compete.

Below were the Super Bowl Odds coming into the season.

Super Bowl LX odds
Baltimore Ravens, Buffalo Bills, Philadelphia Eagles: +700

Kansas City Chiefs: +800

Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers: 12-1

Washington Commanders: 18-1

Cincinnati Bengals, Los Angeles Rams, San Francisco 49ers: 20-1

Denver Broncos, Minnesota Vikings: 25-1

Los Angeles Chargers: 28-1

Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 30-1

Houston Texans: 35-1

Chicago Bears, Pittsburgh Steelers: 40-1

Arizona Cardinals: 50-1

Dallas Cowboys, Seattle Seahawks: 60-1

Atlanta Falcons, Jacksonville Jaguars, Miami Dolphins, New England Patriots: 80-1

Indianapolis Colts, Las Vegas Raiders: 100-1

Carolina Panthers: 150-1

New York Giants, New York Jets, Tennessee Titans: 200-1

Cleveland Browns, New Orleans Saints: 300-1

So, they were believed to be better than Carolina, the two New York teams, the Titans, Browns and Saints....and in your eyes, THAT meant they were going to compete?

Finding a post or two that might suggest maybe the Raiders could win more….or pre season Super Bowl odds. I’m not much of a betting man, but 60 to 1 is better than 100 to 1, right? Give it up Donn…no one with a shred of football knowledge is surprised that Pete, Geno and Jamal didn’t turn around the franchise.

[douche]

That hobbit has never scared me...

He reminds me of an undersized jackrabbit. And nobody swings the ball in space while on the run like Kyler.

[57reasons]

Okay, here, a mid-season report card on preseason moves. To me pundits had a more positive opinion of the raiders off season than the seahawks

Seahawks

Seattle Seahawks: Lots of people in the Pacific Northwest should be taking a victory lap right about now. The Seahawks' offensive overhaul produced lots of side-eyes this offseason, but so far nearly every move looks like a near masterstroke. There's still substantial room for the offense to grow if a stumbling ground game ranked 31st in expected points added per carry can find its footing. But with Sam Darnold continuing to bombard opponents with deep strikes, Seattle's found something sustainable with its calculated aggression. Meanwhile, Mike Macdonald's complex defense appears as vexing as ever, and the Seahawks' ability to thrive on the road makes them a dangerous postseason threat

Raiders

Las Vegas Raiders: Between the arrivals of Pete Carroll and Geno Smith, Las Vegas looked bound to establish a baseline level of competence that had eluded the organization for years. Instead, the Silver and Black have prompted questions of whether the 74-year-old coach and 35-year-old quarterback are the right figures to be leading a group that still looks to be a couple years off at minimum. Between the limited returns from the rookie class and the defense looking as dilapidated as ever, there aren't many encouraging signs that the Raiders can make up ground on the rest of the AFC West anytime soon.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 107829007/

The offseason that the pundits were so wrong about all rested upon their thinking that Darnold's cinderella run was over and he would turn back into a pumpkin. It's lazy analysis that refused to move off a narrative whose accuracy had run its course with the Jets and Panthers but has since then been completely wrong. Ironic because Geno's career took the exact same course (albeit not as high a ceiling), hard to understand how people could compare the two and stubbornly cling to the old narrative for the one but not the other.

[Donn Beach]

Yeah, as wacky as it seems now, it turned on people believing Smith was the better QB. What JS did was get a 3rd round draft pick, a less expensive QB that in addition is clearly the better QB. It's up there with the RW scam

[Donn Beach]

One article pretending the Raiders were going to contend this year isn't going to change the narative. No one that understands the game expected them to compete.

Below were the Super Bowl Odds coming into the season.

Super Bowl LX odds
Baltimore Ravens, Buffalo Bills, Philadelphia Eagles: +700

Kansas City Chiefs: +800

Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers: 12-1

Washington Commanders: 18-1

Cincinnati Bengals, Los Angeles Rams, San Francisco 49ers: 20-1

Denver Broncos, Minnesota Vikings: 25-1

Los Angeles Chargers: 28-1

Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 30-1

Houston Texans: 35-1

Chicago Bears, Pittsburgh Steelers: 40-1

Arizona Cardinals: 50-1

Dallas Cowboys, Seattle Seahawks: 60-1

Atlanta Falcons, Jacksonville Jaguars, Miami Dolphins, New England Patriots: 80-1

Indianapolis Colts, Las Vegas Raiders: 100-1

Carolina Panthers: 150-1

New York Giants, New York Jets, Tennessee Titans: 200-1

Cleveland Browns, New Orleans Saints: 300-1

So, they were believed to be better than Carolina, the two New York teams, the Titans, Browns and Saints....and in your eyes, THAT meant they were going to compete?

Finding a post or two that might suggest maybe the Raiders could win more….or pre season Super Bowl odds. I’m not much of a betting man, but 60 to 1 is better than 100 to 1, right? Give it up Donn…no one with a shred of football knowledge is surprised that Pete, Geno and Jamal didn’t turn around the franchise.

That's from July, that's what I was thinking of, the over under

Donn Beach wrote: ↑
So I checked, I'm surprised. The 4 win Raiders and the 10 win Seahawks are even this season, both at 7.5 over under. So Vegas thinks Pete turns the Raiders around and the Seahawks regress. If that happens does the JS seat get warm?

[Sibelius Hindemith]

Yeah i remember a lot of pundits seemed to think the Raiders were going to be competitive although not a playoff team.

[Donn Beach]

Yeah i remember a lot of pundits seemed to think the Raiders were going to be competitive although not a playoff team.

It wasn't predicting the raiders making the playoffs, but generally speaking everybody seemed more impressed with their off season than the seahawks, the pundits liked the additions, the stat nerds thought they added more production, and the gamblers thought they had drawn even terms of expected wins. Looking back seems pretty hard to believe.