Who will win the presidential election

Who will win

Trump
15
65%
Biden
8
35%
There will be a tie and they will be co-president
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 23

Fungo
Posts: 340
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Re: Who will win the presidential election

Post by Fungo » Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:26 pm

HawkBowler 2.0 wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:10 pm
The most powerful man right now is not Biden or even Trump, it's Mike Pence. He's the president of the Senate and he has the power all by himself to stop the steal... or at least kick the election over to Congress to be decided.

We've been let down by one undercover deep stater after another. It's hard to have any faith. But if there's a guy up at the top who's really a good guy with integrity it's Pence. He's going to do the right thing. Pence knows that the people trying to steal their way into power are evil. I don't think he can face Jesus with that on his conscious. I really don't...
I really don’t think Pence has the power to reject the electors and throw the whole thing back to congress. Even if he does why would you think his conscience would lead him to exercise an option that would very possibly lead to civil war rather than consider the more prudent path of working with congress to right the ship without bloodshed?

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gil
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Re: Who will win the presidential election

Post by gil » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:51 pm

Fungo wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:26 pm
HawkBowler 2.0 wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:10 pm
The most powerful man right now is not Biden or even Trump, it's Mike Pence. He's the president of the Senate and he has the power all by himself to stop the steal... or at least kick the election over to Congress to be decided.

We've been let down by one undercover deep stater after another. It's hard to have any faith. But if there's a guy up at the top who's really a good guy with integrity it's Pence. He's going to do the right thing. Pence knows that the people trying to steal their way into power are evil. I don't think he can face Jesus with that on his conscious. I really don't...
I really don’t think Pence has the power to reject the electors and throw the whole thing back to congress. Even if he does why would you think his conscience would lead him to exercise an option that would very possibly lead to civil war rather than consider the more prudent path of working with congress to right the ship without bloodshed?
Rep. Gohmert of Texas has filed a suit that says Pence should have the power. I don't really understand the suit, because Gohmert is suing Pence. Is the point that Pence should NOT be following the constitution and Federal law.

I think giving the Vice President (as President of the Senate) power to overturn the Electoral College would be an extremely dangerous precedent. What if Joe Biden in 2016 would have decided that "the right thing" was to give the election to Clinton rather than Trump? What if Al Gore in 2000 had decided that "the right thing" would have been to give Florida's electors (and the presidency) to ... Al Gore? You can't just have people deciding these things on their own. You have to trust the constitution and the laws and the courts. That's what Biden did in 2016 and Gore did in 2020.

BaseHitDerby
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Re: Who will win the presidential election

Post by BaseHitDerby » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:31 pm

All six of the contested battleground states and even NM sent dueling electors. The Republican electors thought there was clear fraud that's why they sent their votes for Trump. I don't think that was the case in 2000 or 2016. We'll see what kind of power Pence has on Jan. 6 and what he will do.

Grandma Lynn
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Re: Who will win the presidential election

Post by Grandma Lynn » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:32 am

BaseHitDerby wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:31 pm
All six of the contested battleground states and even NM sent dueling electors. The Republican electors thought there was clear fraud that's why they sent their votes for Trump. I don't think that was the case in 2000 or 2016. We'll see what kind of power Pence has on Jan. 6 and what he will do.
I'm worried he's too nice.
Not forceful like Trump.
Maybe he will surprise us.

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HawkBowler 2.0
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Re: Who will win the presidential election

Post by HawkBowler 2.0 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:07 am

gil wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:51 pm
Fungo wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:26 pm
HawkBowler 2.0 wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:10 pm
The most powerful man right now is not Biden or even Trump, it's Mike Pence. He's the president of the Senate and he has the power all by himself to stop the steal... or at least kick the election over to Congress to be decided.

We've been let down by one undercover deep stater after another. It's hard to have any faith. But if there's a guy up at the top who's really a good guy with integrity it's Pence. He's going to do the right thing. Pence knows that the people trying to steal their way into power are evil. I don't think he can face Jesus with that on his conscious. I really don't...
I really don’t think Pence has the power to reject the electors and throw the whole thing back to congress. Even if he does why would you think his conscience would lead him to exercise an option that would very possibly lead to civil war rather than consider the more prudent path of working with congress to right the ship without bloodshed?
Rep. Gohmert of Texas has filed a suit that says Pence should have the power. I don't really understand the suit, because Gohmert is suing Pence. Is the point that Pence should NOT be following the constitution and Federal law.

I think giving the Vice President (as President of the Senate) power to overturn the Electoral College would be an extremely dangerous precedent. What if Joe Biden in 2016 would have decided that "the right thing" was to give the election to Clinton rather than Trump? What if Al Gore in 2000 had decided that "the right thing" would have been to give Florida's electors (and the presidency) to ... Al Gore? You can't just have people deciding these things on their own. You have to trust the constitution and the laws and the courts. That's what Biden did in 2016 and Gore did in 2020.
Fungo... the surest path to civil war is if the current fraudulent Joebama administration takes office. Stopping the election theft is the best way to stop a larger conflict.

Gil... you said that you can't just trust the people, there's also the laws and the courts. I agree! The popular choice (people's decision) has been decided, but our constitution requires two parts - the people + congress decide the president. That way, if the people's vote has been corrupted, as it has in 2020, the elected representatives can step in to right the ship.

...and prevent a civil war

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bpj
Posts: 14887
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Re: Who will win the presidential election

Post by bpj » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:36 am

gil wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:51 pm
Fungo wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:26 pm
HawkBowler 2.0 wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:10 pm
The most powerful man right now is not Biden or even Trump, it's Mike Pence. He's the president of the Senate and he has the power all by himself to stop the steal... or at least kick the election over to Congress to be decided.

We've been let down by one undercover deep stater after another. It's hard to have any faith. But if there's a guy up at the top who's really a good guy with integrity it's Pence. He's going to do the right thing. Pence knows that the people trying to steal their way into power are evil. I don't think he can face Jesus with that on his conscious. I really don't...
I really don’t think Pence has the power to reject the electors and throw the whole thing back to congress. Even if he does why would you think his conscience would lead him to exercise an option that would very possibly lead to civil war rather than consider the more prudent path of working with congress to right the ship without bloodshed?
Rep. Gohmert of Texas has filed a suit that says Pence should have the power. I don't really understand the suit, because Gohmert is suing Pence. Is the point that Pence should NOT be following the constitution and Federal law.

I think giving the Vice President (as President of the Senate) power to overturn the Electoral College would be an extremely dangerous precedent. What if Joe Biden in 2016 would have decided that "the right thing" was to give the election to Clinton rather than Trump? What if Al Gore in 2000 had decided that "the right thing" would have been to give Florida's electors (and the presidency) to ... Al Gore? You can't just have people deciding these things on their own. You have to trust the constitution and the laws and the courts. That's what Biden did in 2016 and Gore did in 2020.
It has nothing to do with "overturning" electoral votes. Its much simpler and far less sinister than that.

The states themselves sent a second set of electors due to the obvious fraud.

Pence isn't making any choice. He isn't overturning anything.

All he needs to do is reject the contested states because the states themselves are saying the elections were fraudulent.

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HawkBowler 2.0
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Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:22 pm

Re: Who will win the presidential election

Post by HawkBowler 2.0 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:41 pm

Exactly, it's not Trump and far-right conspiracy theorists, the battle ground states themselves have put up their own fraud signs.

Everyone on the left believes that the election is no longer contested. But we have a half a dozen states that have declared electoral votes for both candidates. That means those states are contested and will need a decision from Congress. That also means that the election, contrary to popular media culture, has not been decided.

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gil
Posts: 2021
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:50 pm

Re: Who will win the presidential election

Post by gil » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:32 pm

I'm confused by what some people are saying here. "The states" designated one set of electors each based upon the state's popular vote. In the case of the 6 battleground states being discussed (WI, PA, MI, GA, AZ, and NV), state officials certified that the Democratic Party candidate (Biden) won. None of these states has "declared" a second set of electors. Rather, the second set of electors are, as far I know, the Republican electors in each of these 6 states. In each of these states, it was the Democratic electors (not the Republican electors) who were chosen when the election results were certified. These (Democratic, for these 6 states) electors already cast their votes when the Electoral College "met" earlier this month. The Democratic electors from these states are the ones whose votes will be affirmed next week.

Meanwhile, no state official (Governor, Secretary of State, of chief election officials any of these states) is promoting these Republican electors, and none of these officials have claimed any fraud or other wrong doing. Neither fraud nor other wrong doing has been found in any court case.

Clearly, members of the house and senate are well within the Constitution and Federal law to raise challenges. But I think their case has to be stronger than what has been shown so far.

IStillLoveTheMs
Posts: 5244
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 11:29 pm

Re: Who will win the presidential election

Post by IStillLoveTheMs » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:24 pm

"As we speak, today, an alternate slate of electors in the contested states is going to vote and we're going to send those results up to Congress," he continued. "This will ensure that all of our legal remedies remain open. That means that if we win these cases in the courts, that we can direct that the alternate slate of electors be certified." - Steven Miller

What do you clowns figure the odds are that judges are going to rule in favor of Trump's legal team (who have lost just about everything under the sun) to allow the "alternative slate of electors" as the ones the state's certify?

0%.

ZERO.

Even if Pence goes full treason mode, judges then have to rule in favor to certify the alternative electors. ITS. NEVER. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.

There is “zero chance such a maneuver by Pence or the Republicans will succeed if they are bold enough to try this,” Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics said.

Such a move would be destined to fail after courts in several states rejected Trump’s unfounded claims of widespread voter fraud over the past month.

BaseHitDerby
Posts: 877
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Re: Who will win the presidential election

Post by BaseHitDerby » Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:13 pm

Marjorie Taylor Greene 🇺🇸
@mtgreenee
·
3h
Word on the Hill is that Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi could be working together on a rules change "deal" to block our Electoral College Certification objection.

The American people deserve to hear about the voter fraud that took place on Nov 3 ... NO DEAL, NO COVER-UP!
If Trump has a 0% chance of winning, what does McConnell and Pelosi have to worry about?
Still, questions remain about the Electoral Count Act as a viable long-term solution to the problems it purports to resolve. Election scholar Edward Foley wrote in a Washington Post op-ed in early December about the act’s language issues. “I have spent much of my academic career trying to parse its meaning, and I still find it impenetrable or, at the very least, indeterminate,” he admitted. Various problems Foley pointed to included unclear roles of state governors and other state officials as “certifiers” and what role the vice president can play in the process.
I don't think anyone knows for sure what will happen on Jan. 6.

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