Tariffs?

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Back to tariffs ... I will assert again that trade is good. Barter between individuals, trade within a nation, trade across International borders. These are all essentially the same from an economic standpoint, and each kind of trade makes the participants better off.

So now (at least as I write this) the US has erected to highest barriers to international trade in our history. This will not make us wealthier. Our entire history has been based on freedom and capitalism. (Interestingly 1776 was the year for both the Declaration of Independence and the publication of "The Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith. 250th anniversary next year. Put it on your calendars.)

*If* these trade barriers stay in place (I emphasize "if" because Trumps's trade policy has been erratic to date) not every country will suffer. There will not be barriers between China and the EU countries, for example, and all the nations of the world other than the US will continue to benefit from trade.

How many times have you said "free trade" over the last month. It isn't very genuine of you to all of a sudden just call it "trade".

It's bothered me for decades that we (The United States) are the country that HAS TO PROTECT every other nation at our expense. Because of this, I have no issues with the tariffs because I think the countries that we protect OWE US.

Just laziness on my part to drop the free. Same thing, if there isn't a tax/tariff on the exchange.

I think the protection thing is a separate issue, and I agree completely that wealthy countries should be paying more for their defense, not being subsidized by the U.S.

But the tariffs are NOT going accomplish this. The U.S. does not get money from other countries when it imposes a tariff (at least my understanding of how a tariff works - a tariff imposed by the U.S. government is a tax on U.S. consumers and business).

Yes. Just like when Japan has a tariff on US products, it's a tax on their citizens. Basically, it's to make the foreign product more expensive and force the consumer to lean toward the locally made product.

So tell me, why is it okay for other countries to have tariffs on us, but not us on them?

[gil]

How many times have you said "free trade" over the last month. It isn't very genuine of you to all of a sudden just call it "trade".

It's bothered me for decades that we (The United States) are the country that HAS TO PROTECT every other nation at our expense. Because of this, I have no issues with the tariffs because I think the countries that we protect OWE US.

Just laziness on my part to drop the free. Same thing, if there isn't a tax/tariff on the exchange.

I think the protection thing is a separate issue, and I agree completely that wealthy countries should be paying more for their defense, not being subsidized by the U.S.

But the tariffs are NOT going accomplish this. The U.S. does not get money from other countries when it imposes a tariff (at least my understanding of how a tariff works - a tariff imposed by the U.S. government is a tax on U.S. consumers and business).

Yes. Just like when Japan has a tariff on US products, it's a tax on their citizens. Basically, it's to make the foreign product more expensive and force the consumer to lean toward the locally made product.

So tell me, why is it okay for other countries to have tariffs on us, but not us on them?

It's not ok. I don't agree with any tariffs, by any country. But I don't have a voice in (or vote) in Japan. (And if the government of Japan hired me for economic advice, I'd tell them to bring down, and eventually eliminate, all their tariffs.)

[gil]

Only downside is higher costs, I assume, for US produce beef. Again, I assume the reason we are importing is that it's cheaper.

So, we should support foreign countries to save a little money? How is that working out right now? Seems to be not working out very well at all. Maybe if we are supporting our own economy, we can be taxed a little less? Shit, I'm not pretending to have the answer, but I heard someone complaining about what it was going to do to the price of cars. Once they told me the percentage I was like "you realize that is going to add like ten dollars a month to your payment right? The answer? Yeah, but still....

Come on. If it was Biden or Harris doing this we'd hear how great this is for America. Instead? They are too busy fighting us trying to do anything to improve what has been pretty bad for some time.

I don't see how the absence of tariffs is supporting foreign countries. It's making things cheaper for us.

Maybe some people would say that (cheering Biden or Harris for having tariffs), but it wouldn't be me.

[Michael K.]

It's not ok. I don't agree with any tariffs, by any country. But I don't have a voice in (or vote) in Japan. (And if the government of Japan hired me for economic advice, I'd tell them to bring down, and eventually eliminate, all their tariffs.)

But you have a voice here, and your voice is that even though other countries impose tariffs on us, we should not impose tariffs on them?

[Michael K.]

I don't see how the absence of tariffs is supporting foreign countries. It's making things cheaper for us.

Maybe some people would say that (cheering Biden or Harris for having tariffs), but it wouldn't be me.

You said that if we add tariffs it would make things more expensive for us because we would buy local. I'm saying buying local might actually stimulate our own economy. Not sure how that is bad. Again, is it really going to be that much more that helping our own economy, supporting our own businesses and creating jobs isn't worth it?

Buying Australian beef? Why?

[gil]

I don't see how the absence of tariffs is supporting foreign countries. It's making things cheaper for us.

Maybe some people would say that (cheering Biden or Harris for having tariffs), but it wouldn't be me.

You said that if we add tariffs it would make things more expensive for us because we would buy local. I'm saying buying local might actually stimulate our own economy. Not sure how that is bad. Again, is it really going to be that much more that helping our own economy, supporting our own businesses and creating jobs isn't worth it?

Buying Australian beef? Why?

That is exactly why I buy local. But I support the right of others to choose a cheaper product. I feel like I am well-enough-off to pay the higher prices, but I don't think we should force other people to do that.

The other thing, I think that I've said this before, is that the record is that companies behind barriers like tariffs and quotas don;'t really make the investments (e.g., in new jobs, better technology, etc.) that we would like them to do. Too much of it becomes profit - they start acting more like monopolists when they have less competition.

[gil]

It's not ok. I don't agree with any tariffs, by any country. But I don't have a voice in (or vote) in Japan. (And if the government of Japan hired me for economic advice, I'd tell them to bring down, and eventually eliminate, all their tariffs.)

But you have a voice here, and your voice is that even though other countries impose tariffs on us, we should not impose tariffs on them?

Yes, because I think the tariffs that WE impose are bad for Americans. If we think something is unfair, I think we should be working with the World Trade Organization and the Mexico-Canada-US thing that replaced NAFTA. Steady, slow, deliberate moves toward eliminating tariffs and making everyone wealthier. Certainly not the on/off/on again/off again policies we have seen the past few weeks.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Only downside is higher costs, I assume, for US produce beef. Again, I assume the reason we are importing is that it's cheaper.

So, we should support foreign countries to save a little money? How is that working out right now? Seems to be not working out very well at all. Maybe if we are supporting our own economy, we can be taxed a little less? Shit, I'm not pretending to have the answer, but I heard someone complaining about what it was going to do to the price of cars. Once they told me the percentage I was like "you realize that is going to add like ten dollars a month to your payment right? The answer? Yeah, but still....

Come on. If it was Biden or Harris doing this we'd hear how great this is for America. Instead? They are too busy fighting us trying to do anything to improve what has been pretty bad for some time.

I don't see how the absence of tariffs is supporting foreign countries. It's making things cheaper for us.

Maybe some people would say that (cheering Biden or Harris for having tariffs), but it wouldn't be me.

Now think the other way around..... don't we want to have our products sold in other countries? Wouldn't that be good for American industry?

[auroraave]

So, we should support foreign countries to save a little money? How is that working out right now? Seems to be not working out very well at all. Maybe if we are supporting our own economy, we can be taxed a little less? Shit, I'm not pretending to have the answer, but I heard someone complaining about what it was going to do to the price of cars. Once they told me the percentage I was like "you realize that is going to add like ten dollars a month to your payment right? The answer? Yeah, but still....

Come on. If it was Biden or Harris doing this we'd hear how great this is for America. Instead? They are too busy fighting us trying to do anything to improve what has been pretty bad for some time.

I don't see how the absence of tariffs is supporting foreign countries. It's making things cheaper for us.

Maybe some people would say that (cheering Biden or Harris for having tariffs), but it wouldn't be me.

Now think the other way around..... don't we want to have our products sold in other countries? Wouldn't that be good for American industry?

You will never get through to some people. Remember "Trump does anything = BAD!" It's the marching orders of the brain dead.
Tariffs on US products affecting US businesses? SO what!
Tariffs on products affecting OTHER COUNTRIES businesses - "Oh myyyyyyyyyyyy gawwwwwwd! Racism! "
"OMG - Trump cures cancer! No more cancer!"
The Usual Idiots: "Hey, why are we repressing cancer? Cancer has rights! Fuck Trump and fuck ending cancer!" followed by protests like "OMG - hands off cancer" or some other utterly retarded sloganeering bullshit excreted by CNN that these simpletons fall for.

All you can do is marvel at the cluelessness, laugh at the staggering hypocrisy, and pray hard these people don't breed.

Stimulus, response.

[Seattle or Bust]

I don't see how the absence of tariffs is supporting foreign countries. It's making things cheaper for us.

Maybe some people would say that (cheering Biden or Harris for having tariffs), but it wouldn't be me.

You said that if we add tariffs it would make things more expensive for us because we would buy local. I'm saying buying local might actually stimulate our own economy. Not sure how that is bad. Again, is it really going to be that much more that helping our own economy, supporting our own businesses and creating jobs isn't worth it?

Buying Australian beef? Why?

The only way that's going to work is if Trump puts price controls on American products and promotes policies that create competition among American businesses, large and small.

If you limit people to mostly buying American, you can bet that American companies will jack the living hell out of their prices because there's not a vast market of competition. And no, unregulated American competition will not bring prices down because small business will not be able to compete with the Amazons of the world who will just monopolize the manufacturing and distribution of products. Greed has always been the problem in this country.

It would be pretty patriotic if rich business owners said, "yes, I'll move my manufacturing back to the US and eat the costs." Or, "we promise to not raise prices over the next 3 years with the new tariffs in place." Or "we want to see mom and pop businesses make a comeback so we promise to promote their sales above ours or to not instantly buy out every good idea." But they are never going to do that. They NEVER eat the cost and always pass it on to the consumer.

The only reason why prices in the US remain affordable is because the world marketplace creates competition that large American companies have to abide by. Remove the world from the equation, and you just have a bunch of massive American companies screwing consumers over... which has happened time and time and again in American history.

I would love to be proven wrong. But "buying local" isn't a thing unless buying local can somewhat compete with cheaper prices regulated by the world economy. And it sucks to say but the only reason that prices are cheap here is because countries around the globe manufacture and produce w. glorified slave labor. But I suppose the saving grace is that it's not American slave labor...