Should Dipoto and Hollander be fired?

[Sibelius Hindemith]

If the goal is to win championships or even to win playoff games, "Moneyball" never worked. Billy Beane's first season as the A's GM was 1998. He has been there for 28 years and they have won 2 playoff series. As bad as the M's have been, they have won 3 playoff series in that same time frame.

I get that, but I imagine if you compared payrolls, they are even cheaper than we are.

You have to look at overall record and number of times qualifying for the playoffs as well, and the A's have kicked our asses in those two areas. Their playoff record might not be good, but getting there at least gives you a chance. I'm guessing they fell prey to misfortune as much as anything in the postseason.

[Michael K.]

If the goal is to win championships or even to win playoff games, "Moneyball" never worked. Billy Beane's first season as the A's GM was 1998. He has been there for 28 years and they have won 2 playoff series. As bad as the M's have been, they have won 3 playoff series in that same time frame.

I get that, but I imagine if you compared payrolls, they are even cheaper than we are.

You have to look at overall record and number of times qualifying for the playoffs as well, and the A's have kicked our asses in those two areas. Their playoff record might not be good, but getting there at least gives you a chance. I'm guessing they fell prey to misfortune as much as anything in the postseason.

Who knows what happens if Jeter doesn't make an amazing flip....or better yet? If Giambi fricking slides!

[Seattle or Bust]

It worked for the time, but teams are using the same formulas so there isn’t anything to exploit right now. What team is winning now with moneyball? 1 team has won a championship the last 14 years that wasn’t the top half of payroll, and they cheated to get there.

Now I'm very confused. I said he should be fired because he blows money, you seemed to be backing him by saying he was trying to use Money Ball. The dude has straight up lit money on fire with his roster additions, and has done NOTHING to improve teams that were at the end of a rebuild four years ago. He needs to go. Whether he used Money Ball or not, he sucks at his job.

Money Ball was using an On Base Percentage guy like Hatteburg at 1st Base, it was a discount on Perez, and they poo poo'd defense at 1st Base. Money ball is not adding dogshit like Solano and Garver. It's not adding Haniger, Santos, Urias Kolten Wong, AJ Pollock or Tommy La Stella either.

His best moves have been Suarez and Hernandez, and he got rid of both of them. Not to mention, Suarez was a throw in for another wasted addition in Jesse Winker. Winker was the guy they wanted and they got lucky!

He’s trying to get production from multiple players in the 5-10 million range, and it’s just wasted money. Increase the payroll by 40 million, and get 3 25-30 million dollar guys instead. Regardless, if mariners won’t spent more enough to get in the top 10 payroll, then they are going to have to rely on their prospects.

He’s trying to squeeze a little bit of juice out of average players with big flaws.

Are those players working out, no, but I’m not sure anyone is going to put together anything that much better with a similar payroll.

About moneyball, I think team are valuing the OBP, and other things more now than they did 25 years ago, so it’s harder to find the value that Beane got. Jerry’s version is finding flawed players and hoping to get theirs above average performance, and it’s failing miserably

You and I both know that’s not happening.

There’s a big difference between “trying to get production” and picking players who are well worse than replacement level.

There are plenty of players paid in that range who are productive. Jerry just chooses all the worst ones.

[Michael K.]

There’s a big difference between “trying to get production” and picking players who are well worse than replacement level.

There are plenty of players paid in that range who are productive. Jerry just chooses all the worst ones.

With consistency! It's what I have said over and over again for many years. We talk on these boards about what the GM wanted to do, what was the intention, how they got there and why. The facts are, Jerry is down right shitty at adding productive bats and Schneider is shitty at adding decent O Lineman. Those are facts, and I don't care about what their method or reasoning was, there is years of evidence to support that neither of those two are doing what it takes in those areas.

Argue what they are trying to do all you want, but one guy turned a dynasty into a 9 and 8 football team and the other turned a rebuild into nearly a decade with two single playoff victories. That is what they should both answer to, but we get into page long debates about what they tried to do and if it should have worked or not. Didn't work, and that is all that matters.

You look at some of the ideas casual fans in here have, and wonder what they would do with the means and resources that these guys have! Imagine making the kind of money these guys make to be mediocre to bad at your job!? AND...have people defend you.

[bpj]

Good points by pretty much everybody.

Seems like the one thing besides not making the playoffs that has been just as consistent is Dipoto wasting $30+ million in available payroll on several bums instead of one or two good players.

From Wade Miley and Nori Aoki to Donovan Solano and Mitch Garver. Absolutely pathetic.

[Pharmabro]

Good points by pretty much everybody.

Seems like the one thing besides not making the playoffs that has been just as consistent is Dipoto wasting $30+ million in available payroll on several bums instead of one or two good players.

From Wade Miley and Nori Aoki to Donovan Solano and Mitch Garver. Absolutely pathetic.

I am in the minority here, but ownership clearly said that when the reboot was ready "funds" would be available. They clearly went back to Jerry and said here is the cap. JD is handcuffed. There is a group of posters that come up with deadline plans, offseason plans, etc. But the bottom line is that these plans look great but when we go to sign Ohtani and ownership goes yes good get as long as you can get him for 25M X 5 we won't go 6. There is nothing Jerry can do.

This BS where you absolute geniuses claim that you knew Polanco was not the guy last year you would have done XYZ is Monday morning QB BS. This year he has a 119 OPS+ and the 2nd most HR and RBI. If he was that guy last year we are in the playoffs.

JD and Hollander have created the best farm system I have ever seen. They have developed Cal, Brash, Gilbert, Kirby, Woo, Miller, JRod, Evans. Hancock,

Trades and partially developed: JP. Moore, Munoz, Raley: So many BP parts.

Finally, the farm. There are players in the current farm that are ranked outside the top 10 that I would rank at least in-line with top-10's M prospects for 10 or 15 years ago.

I watched the Aquasox squad play here in Spokane tonight. Laz hit a 440' HR to dead center that sounded different than the other HRs that were hit that night including his 2nd HR and Arroyo's they have a .950 and .970 OPS. And don't look now but Colt has a 1.040 PS in June. Pete looked like a guy that posed for pictures in his Junior-pro, he has 10 HR and 11 SB a 30-30 pace and is probably a level over his head. The M's system is loaded.

I would have done the "go for it deals" the latest was some sort of deal for Devers. When you deal with reality JD's team has been doing a fantastic job.

[Seattle or Bust]

Good points by pretty much everybody.

Seems like the one thing besides not making the playoffs that has been just as consistent is Dipoto wasting $30+ million in available payroll on several bums instead of one or two good players.

From Wade Miley and Nori Aoki to Donovan Solano and Mitch Garver. Absolutely pathetic.

I am in the minority here, but ownership clearly said that when the reboot was ready "funds" would be available. They clearly went back to Jerry and said here is the cap. JD is handcuffed. There is a group of posters that come up with deadline plans, offseason plans, etc. But the bottom line is that these plans look great but when we go to sign Ohtani and ownership goes yes good get as long as you can get him for 25M X 5 we won't go 6. There is nothing Jerry can do.

This BS where you absolute geniuses claim that you knew Polanco was not the guy last year you would have done XYZ is Monday morning QB BS. This year he has a 119 OPS+ and the 2nd most HR and RBI. If he was that guy last year we are in the playoffs.

JD and Hollander have created the best farm system I have ever seen. They have developed Cal, Brash, Gilbert, Kirby, Woo, Miller, JRod, Evans. Hancock,

Trades and partially developed: JP. Moore, Munoz, Raley: So many BP parts.

Finally, the farm. There are players in the current farm that are ranked outside the top 10 that I would rank at least in-line with top-10's M prospects for 10 or 15 years ago.

I watched the Aquasox squad play here in Spokane tonight. Laz hit a 440' HR to dead center that sounded different than the other HRs that were hit that night including his 2nd HR and Arroyo's they have a .950 and .970 OPS. And don't look now but Colt has a 1.040 PS in June. Pete looked like a guy that posed for pictures in his Junior-pro, he has 10 HR and 11 SB a 30-30 pace and is probably a level over his head. The M's system is loaded.

I would have done the "go for it deals" the latest was some sort of deal for Devers. When you deal with reality JD's team has been doing a fantastic job.

Since 5/1 Polanco has been the 6th worst player in baseball... hitting .182/.236/.258/.494... good for a 44 OPS+ and -0.8 fWAR.

Is it Monday Morning Quarterbacking to then explain to you how much Solano, Garver and Tellez suck too?

The point is everyone agrees with all that except that Jerry sucks at one very crucial thing: FINISHING THE ROSTER. You're not explaining anything new.

[Pharmabro]

Good points by pretty much everybody.

Seems like the one thing besides not making the playoffs that has been just as consistent is Dipoto wasting $30+ million in available payroll on several bums instead of one or two good players.

From Wade Miley and Nori Aoki to Donovan Solano and Mitch Garver. Absolutely pathetic.

I am in the minority here, but ownership clearly said that when the reboot was ready "funds" would be available. They clearly went back to Jerry and said here is the cap. JD is handcuffed. There is a group of posters that come up with deadline plans, offseason plans, etc. But the bottom line is that these plans look great but when we go to sign Ohtani and ownership goes yes good get as long as you can get him for 25M X 5 we won't go 6. There is nothing Jerry can do.

This BS where you absolute geniuses claim that you knew Polanco was not the guy last year you would have done XYZ is Monday morning QB BS. This year he has a 119 OPS+ and the 2nd most HR and RBI. If he was that guy last year we are in the playoffs.

JD and Hollander have created the best farm system I have ever seen. They have developed Cal, Brash, Gilbert, Kirby, Woo, Miller, JRod, Evans. Hancock,

Trades and partially developed: JP. Moore, Munoz, Raley: So many BP parts.

Finally, the farm. There are players in the current farm that are ranked outside the top 10 that I would rank at least in-line with top-10's M prospects for 10 or 15 years ago.

I watched the Aquasox squad play here in Spokane tonight. Laz hit a 440' HR to dead center that sounded different than the other HRs that were hit that night including his 2nd HR and Arroyo's they have a .950 and .970 OPS. And don't look now but Colt has a 1.040 PS in June. Pete looked like a guy that posed for pictures in his Junior-pro, he has 10 HR and 11 SB a 30-30 pace and is probably a level over his head. The M's system is loaded.

I would have done the "go for it deals" the latest was some sort of deal for Devers. When you deal with reality JD's team has been doing a fantastic job.

Since 5/1 Polanco has been the 6th worst player in baseball... hitting .182/.236/.258/.494... good for a 44 OPS+ and -0.8 fWAR.

Is it Monday Morning Quarterbacking to then explain to you how much Solano, Garver and Tellez suck too?

The point is everyone agrees with all that except that Jerry sucks at one very crucial thing: FINISHING THE ROSTER. You're not explaining anything new.

Eat a big bag of dicks.


In the 1st month of this season, he was the best player in baseball 9Ks 9 HR in 22 games.

Your dumb ass thinks you just snapped back.

[Seattle or Bust]

I am in the minority here, but ownership clearly said that when the reboot was ready "funds" would be available. They clearly went back to Jerry and said here is the cap. JD is handcuffed. There is a group of posters that come up with deadline plans, offseason plans, etc. But the bottom line is that these plans look great but when we go to sign Ohtani and ownership goes yes good get as long as you can get him for 25M X 5 we won't go 6. There is nothing Jerry can do.

This BS where you absolute geniuses claim that you knew Polanco was not the guy last year you would have done XYZ is Monday morning QB BS. This year he has a 119 OPS+ and the 2nd most HR and RBI. If he was that guy last year we are in the playoffs.

JD and Hollander have created the best farm system I have ever seen. They have developed Cal, Brash, Gilbert, Kirby, Woo, Miller, JRod, Evans. Hancock,

Trades and partially developed: JP. Moore, Munoz, Raley: So many BP parts.

Finally, the farm. There are players in the current farm that are ranked outside the top 10 that I would rank at least in-line with top-10's M prospects for 10 or 15 years ago.

I watched the Aquasox squad play here in Spokane tonight. Laz hit a 440' HR to dead center that sounded different than the other HRs that were hit that night including his 2nd HR and Arroyo's they have a .950 and .970 OPS. And don't look now but Colt has a 1.040 PS in June. Pete looked like a guy that posed for pictures in his Junior-pro, he has 10 HR and 11 SB a 30-30 pace and is probably a level over his head. The M's system is loaded.

I would have done the "go for it deals" the latest was some sort of deal for Devers. When you deal with reality JD's team has been doing a fantastic job.

Since 5/1 Polanco has been the 6th worst player in baseball... hitting .182/.236/.258/.494... good for a 44 OPS+ and -0.8 fWAR.

Is it Monday Morning Quarterbacking to then explain to you how much Solano, Garver and Tellez suck too?

The point is everyone agrees with all that except that Jerry sucks at one very crucial thing: FINISHING THE ROSTER. You're not explaining anything new.

Eat a big bag of dicks.


In the 1st month of this season, he was the best player in baseball 9Ks 9 HR in 22 games.

Your dumb ass thinks you just snapped back.

I did just snap back. What good is a player being the best in baseball for 1 month if he's going to be one of the worst in baseball for the next 2 months?

And you didn't answer my question nor address the point of the last couple pages because per usual...

[bpj]

Good points by pretty much everybody.

Seems like the one thing besides not making the playoffs that has been just as consistent is Dipoto wasting $30+ million in available payroll on several bums instead of one or two good players.

From Wade Miley and Nori Aoki to Donovan Solano and Mitch Garver. Absolutely pathetic.

I am in the minority here, but ownership clearly said that when the reboot was ready "funds" would be available. They clearly went back to Jerry and said here is the cap. JD is handcuffed. There is a group of posters that come up with deadline plans, offseason plans, etc. But the bottom line is that these plans look great but when we go to sign Ohtani and ownership goes yes good get as long as you can get him for 25M X 5 we won't go 6. There is nothing Jerry can do.

This BS where you absolute geniuses claim that you knew Polanco was not the guy last year you would have done XYZ is Monday morning QB BS. This year he has a 119 OPS+ and the 2nd most HR and RBI. If he was that guy last year we are in the playoffs.

JD and Hollander have created the best farm system I have ever seen. They have developed Cal, Brash, Gilbert, Kirby, Woo, Miller, JRod, Evans. Hancock,

Trades and partially developed: JP. Moore, Munoz, Raley: So many BP parts.

Finally, the farm. There are players in the current farm that are ranked outside the top 10 that I would rank at least in-line with top-10's M prospects for 10 or 15 years ago.

I watched the Aquasox squad play here in Spokane tonight. Laz hit a 440' HR to dead center that sounded different than the other HRs that were hit that night including his 2nd HR and Arroyo's they have a .950 and .970 OPS. And don't look now but Colt has a 1.040 PS in June. Pete looked like a guy that posed for pictures in his Junior-pro, he has 10 HR and 11 SB a 30-30 pace and is probably a level over his head. The M's system is loaded.

I would have done the "go for it deals" the latest was some sort of deal for Devers. When you deal with reality JD's team has been doing a fantastic job.

And what has it amounted to?

Perennial bubble team.

Dipoto belongs in a trashbag.

He has wasted $30M every single season on offensive bums. That's why he hasn't put together any winners.

But congratulations on what an awesome foundation he laid, but never capitalizes on.