Cal vs. Judge for MVP

[bpj]

Might come down to the postseason who the real mvp is.

They've been playing great, hopefully they can keep it up.

Best lineup we've had in years.

Cant even complain about the middle of the order since Cal has become one.

Even Polanco became the 30HR/600 player ice believed he would be.

[D-train]

Might come down to the postseason who the real mvp is.

They've been playing great, hopefully they can keep it up.

Best lineup we've had in years.

Cant even complain about the middle of the order since Cal has become one.

Even Polanco became the 30HR/600 player ice believed he would be.

MVP voting is before the Post season.

[DavidGee24]

And that Judge is even slightly ahead in WAR is irrelevant when you consider the advanced degree of difficulty there is for a catcher to do that. Yogi Berra and Roy Campanella each won three MVPs despite not really being even close to leading the league in WAR those years. In fact, the only two catchers to ever lead the league in WAR were Johnny Bench in 1972 and Buster Posey in 2012, both winning the MVP.

Also, if Cal weren't DHing which is a deflater he would be leading the league in WAR. Neither Bench nor Posey DH'd and had to catch almost 150 games.

We all see that. But how many voters are going to look at the large discrepancy in AVG, Slugging, OB and OPS?

I am also no baseball stat head. But this link has Judge at 8.4 WAR and Cal at 6.5

https://stathead.com/baseball/versus-fi ... dge-001aar

But, more importantly...since I think WAR is fucking dumb as shit. 27 more hits, 79 points higher in AVG, 90 points higher in OBP, 86 points higher in SLG and and OPS of 1.127 compared to .951? OPS + of 209 compared to 169?

All of those stats are quoted around here all the time. Again, I have no clue why the WAR stat I found is different than DTs, but those other numbers jump out at me. 8 players in all of baseball hitting over .300, and no one has a higher average than Judge. He is also second in Walks and 4th in HRs.

His .326 AVG is 9 points higher than the second best in baseball.
His .451 OBP is 56 points higher than the second best in baseball.
His .676 Slg is 65 points higher than the second best in baseball.
His 1.127 makes him one of only two players with an OPS over 1, and his is .121 higher than Ohtani, who is second best.

If Judge was a Mariner we'd be saying it's a no brainer. I'm afraid it is. Judge is having an other worldly season.

Oh, I'm biased as hell. I do think Cal has a good chance, though. It's just a matter of is it more impressive what Judge has done as an outfielder compared to what Cal has done as a catcher.

[Michael K.]

Oh, I'm biased as hell. I do think Cal has a good chance, though. It's just a matter of is it more impressive what Judge has done as an outfielder compared to what Cal has done as a catcher.

I am too, and I like what Captain said about the difference between what Judge is doing historically compared to other amazing seasons by an OFer, compared to what Cal is doing in comparison to other historic seasons by a Catcher. Very valid point.

[XpertDBA]

Park factors should come into play.

They are incorporated into the WAR calc.

But I'm guessing WAR doesn't figure in that catcher is about 100 times harder to play for a full season than outfielder. The number of balls and bats continuously hitting you every game. Having to sit on your haunches for 2-3 hours. Having to put on that gear and take it off every inning. I bet Cal would have loved to sit in the outfield every game and not have to do all the other crap to wear down your body.

[Michael K.]

Park factors should come into play.

They are incorporated into the WAR calc.

But I'm guessing WAR doesn't figure in that catcher is about 100 times harder to play for a full season than outfielder. The number of balls and bats continuously hitting you every game. Having to sit on your haunches for 2-3 hours. Having to put on that gear and take it off every inning. I bet Cal would have loved to sit in the outfield every game and not have to do all the other crap to wear down your body.

Isn't that exactly why they add points to WAR when you play positions like Catcher, SS and CF, and subtract for positions like DH? I mentioned it many times this year, but at one point in the summer, J Rod was in the 90s and 100s in just about every hitting category there is, but it seems that his defense gave him a WAR on par with being Elite. Pretty sure that is due to some of what you are mentioning, no?

[D-train]

They are incorporated into the WAR calc.

But I'm guessing WAR doesn't figure in that catcher is about 100 times harder to play for a full season than outfielder. The number of balls and bats continuously hitting you every game. Having to sit on your haunches for 2-3 hours. Having to put on that gear and take it off every inning. I bet Cal would have loved to sit in the outfield every game and not have to do all the other crap to wear down your body.

Isn't that exactly why they add points to WAR when you play positions like Catcher, SS and CF, and subtract for positions like DH? I mentioned it many times this year, but at one point in the summer, J Rod was in the 90s and 100s in just about every hitting category there is, but it seems that his defense gave him a WAR on par with being Elite. Pretty sure that is due to some of what you are mentioning, no?

Correct.

Screenshot 2025-09-18 111207.png (22.99 KiB) Viewed 134 times

[XpertDBA]

But I'm guessing WAR doesn't figure in that catcher is about 100 times harder to play for a full season than outfielder. The number of balls and bats continuously hitting you every game. Having to sit on your haunches for 2-3 hours. Having to put on that gear and take it off every inning. I bet Cal would have loved to sit in the outfield every game and not have to do all the other crap to wear down your body.

Isn't that exactly why they add points to WAR when you play positions like Catcher, SS and CF, and subtract for positions like DH? I mentioned it many times this year, but at one point in the summer, J Rod was in the 90s and 100s in just about every hitting category there is, but it seems that his defense gave him a WAR on par with being Elite. Pretty sure that is due to some of what you are mentioning, no?

Correct.

Screenshot 2025-09-18 111207.png

That's why you guys are the experts, and I hardly ever comment.

[D-train]

Isn't that exactly why they add points to WAR when you play positions like Catcher, SS and CF, and subtract for positions like DH? I mentioned it many times this year, but at one point in the summer, J Rod was in the 90s and 100s in just about every hitting category there is, but it seems that his defense gave him a WAR on par with being Elite. Pretty sure that is due to some of what you are mentioning, no?

Correct.

Screenshot 2025-09-18 111207.png

That's why you guys are the experts, and I hardly ever comment.

Comment away brother.

[Pharmabro]

I can see both sides. I am fine letting the voters decide. I will respect their decision either way.

Yep, You must consider that Cal as a catcher has hit 56 bombs and counting and the previous high for catchers was 48. Cal hit in the worst hitters park in all of baseball and Judge is a Yankee who hits in a band box and gets Yankees ump bias as well.