Post Mortem: Seahawks v Cardinals

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Donn Beach
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Re: Post Mortem: Seahawks v Cardinals

Post by Donn Beach » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:24 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:11 pm
My remarks were in reference to the past 5 completed seasons. You have to change the argument to include the early seasons where everyone agrees they killed it in the draft because you have no answer. Anyway i'm done wasting my time on this. Hopefully i will get some serious responses from others.
I already explained my feeling about drafts, i think its largely luck in the first place, that they had a couple of killer drafts and then mediocre ones doesn't surprise me. Not going to argue it with you, and i don't know what this answer your looking for, seems to me a lot of sarcasm, where did i say anything about doing a bang up job in the first place? You want to focus on their playoff record over the last five seasons, fine. that seems pretty SSS to me, but okay. They did go to the playoffs except for a single season. If you want to feel they have loused it all ok. I see it a bit more successful than that, again, in terms of being relative to other teams. No other team other than the Patriots has performed really any better of the last decade, that is the way i look at it. I think its been pretty cool really

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Post Mortem: Seahawks v Cardinals

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:34 pm

I get it. You can't answer the question.

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D-train
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Re: Post Mortem: Seahawks v Cardinals

Post by D-train » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:36 pm

Michael K. wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:17 pm
The bottom line is, everyone is right, but since no one will see anyone else’s point the debate never ends, it is an absolute fact that they have blown the first round, and sometimes even the second round. It is also a fact that they have had a very successful run.

So, since the guys that want to apologize all the time will refuse to admit that no one is saying we don’t win, just that we would win more if they didn’t blow the first round pick...this debate will go nowhere.

For the last time, I have said a million times we have messed up an opportunity for more rings, and a big reason is a failure in the first round.

Complaining about injuries and depth? The depth problem is much smaller if you are hitting on first round picks. On this roster? The rookie drafted to replace Wagner is the most productive first round pick of our last four!
And he is so awesome you couldn't even remember his name. ;)
dt

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Donn Beach
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Re: Post Mortem: Seahawks v Cardinals

Post by Donn Beach » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:21 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:34 pm
I get it. You can't answer the question.
what's the question?...why they have a 9-11 record in the playoffs? What am i supposed to tell you? You are not looking for an answer, you are trying to make some sort of statement. You think its because JS is a shitty GM? ok, fine with me

I think JS is a pretty good GM, that is reflected in various ways. I don't think he is a lot better or a lot worse than most other GMs. Again, i think he is a victim of his own success. He was proclaimed an uber GM after his first few seasons wild success at drafting, but again, there was no way he was going to be able to maintain that. I don't think he is as smart as he was made out to be, and that is why I don't think is about him getting dumber.

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Post Mortem: Seahawks v Cardinals

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:56 pm

Shitty no, but he crapped the bed after his first three years here. He let what was a dominant team crumble into a team that would be below .500 with a league average QB.

Michael K.
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Re: Post Mortem: Seahawks v Cardinals

Post by Michael K. » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:20 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:21 pm
Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:34 pm
I get it. You can't answer the question.
what's the question?...why they have a 9-11 record in the playoffs? What am i supposed to tell you? You are not looking for an answer, you are trying to make some sort of statement. You think its because JS is a shitty GM? ok, fine with me

I think JS is a pretty good GM, that is reflected in various ways. I don't think he is a lot better or a lot worse than most other GMs. Again, i think he is a victim of his own success. He was proclaimed an uber GM after his first few seasons wild success at drafting, but again, there was no way he was going to be able to maintain that. I don't think he is as smart as he was made out to be, and that is why I don't think is about him getting dumber.
He asked why with one of the best QBs in the Conference, who never misses a snap, why are they a 9 to 11 win team. I think it is a legitimate question.

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Donn Beach
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Re: Post Mortem: Seahawks v Cardinals

Post by Donn Beach » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:21 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:56 pm
Shitty no, but he crapped the bed after his first three years here. He let what was a dominant team crumble into a team that would be below .500 with a league average QB.

well some might look at it as going though a rebuild, and a pretty quick one at that, only missing the playoffs once, as well as shifting direction from a defensive approach to an offensive one

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Re: Post Mortem: Seahawks v Cardinals

Post by Michael K. » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:30 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:21 pm
Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:56 pm
Shitty no, but he crapped the bed after his first three years here. He let what was a dominant team crumble into a team that would be below .500 with a league average QB.

well some might look at it as going though a rebuild, and a pretty quick one at that, only missing the playoffs once, as well as shifting direction from a defensive approach to an offensive one
Why did they need to rebuild? Take a look through the years. Has anyone ever said "Green Bay would be real good, but Aaron Rodgers can only carry them so far."? No, what we hear is how good Green Bay would have been if Rodgers hadn't gotten hurt. Wilson never gets hurt.

I know you won't answer this, but what First round pick since ET do you point to to make your case? I am of the belief that we have blown every first round pick since ET. Stop making excuses for why, and prove me wrong? Bill will come in and say it is hindsight, or my favorite "you couldn't do better." Two of the dumbest fucking arguments on the internet. It's all excuses. They have flat out BLOWN every first round pick and a few second round picks, since ET. ET isn't even in the damn league right now!

C Mike and McDowell are second round picks, so it gets even worse when you throw those two gems in there. For once, stop making excuses and actually take a stand. Why is it not relevant to talk about the fact that they have flat out blown there first selection pretty much every year since before the Super Bowl!?

Gee, maybe those two things fit. We haven't been to another Super Bowl since. Hhmm. How could those two things fit together. And, YES, other teams blow picks, not EVERY first pick. At least not ones that win. Yes, they have made good picks after their first one, how does that have ANYTHING to do with the fact that the pick that should help you the most they have blown!?

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Donn Beach
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Re: Post Mortem: Seahawks v Cardinals

Post by Donn Beach » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:38 pm

why did they have to rebuild?...I would say, salary cap management, they cycled through some veteran contracts, number on the defense, they signed RW to the new contract, shifted the emphasis of the team.

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Re: Post Mortem: Seahawks v Cardinals

Post by auroraave » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:16 pm

Gee, maybe those two things fit. We haven't been to another Super Bowl since. Hhmm. How could those two things fit together. And, YES, other teams blow picks, not EVERY first pick. At least not ones that win. Yes, they have made good picks after their first one, how does that have ANYTHING to do with the fact that the pick that should help you the most they have blown!?
Seattle hasn't drafted higher than 27th since 2012. Who, in that same stretch, has had the same draft stock, and how have they faired, comparatively?
Until you can answer this question you have failed to make your case.

Show your proof - show the drafting comparisons that back your claim of all these failed picks in concert with other teams in the exact same situation. Isn't that the logical way to define the success/failure rate? What intel, besides emotions, are you crunching? My guess is nothing.

You won't answer this because you can't. There is no data other than your emotions that verifies your position. None. Show similar situations and the success and failure rates - and show your data points.

Everyone on here knows you can't - if you could, you'd have posted it years ago. Guess who the last two people they picked at 27 were? Brooks (playing well) and Bruce Irvin - still in the league.

Just once I'd like to see some proof. I will literally close my account if you can back your claim. Have you factored in the difficulty in the cost versus productivity rates of end of/late first round picks?

You're not proving your position unless you have something to back it up. Someone else was kind enough to post a statistical analysis of drafts that basically proved you wrong using real world data and not emotions of what you feel you are entitled to, fan wise.

Show data that backs your position, or accept the reality you are dead wrong - and trying to dodge the request simply means you admit there is nothing that backs up your claim. I would love to see data proof - and for the 1,000th time, your emotions and fan demands are not proof. Show us - other teams success/failure rates using the same draft capital. Should be easy. One quick note - Arizona, the Lambs and SF all stacked their roster and rebuilt by bottoming out and getting a lot of top end draft capital to restock - while Seattle has not had that luxury - while still being a perennial playoff contender.

You can easily settle the argument. Anything other than showing statistical proof and data to back it up means your position is false. I really want to see this. Show us. And Seattle failing to win Super Bowls is not proof of anything other than your personal wants.

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