Post Mortem: Seattle v Washington Redskins Football Club

SeattleAddict
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Re: Post Mortem: Seattle v Washington Redskins Football Club

Post by SeattleAddict » Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:07 am

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:47 am
The previous 6 opponents (at least) had been sending extra defenders after Russ with regularity. Why weren't they using that quick slant to DK in those games? It should have been the go-to play when the Bills blitzed the hell out of them in week 9 and henceforth but apparently it wasn't even in the playbook until last week.
this is a legit question.

After re-watching the game, I can tell you 100% Washington made a noticeable change from a 3 or 4 man front to 5 or 6 to stop the run, and RW IMMEDIATELY hit those slants back to back. Not coincidence. Where was that against the Giants?? Good freaking question.

But hell, hopefully they're past it.

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Re: Post Mortem: Seattle v Washington Redskins Football Club

Post by auroraave » Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:53 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:07 am
Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:47 am
The previous 6 opponents (at least) had been sending extra defenders after Russ with regularity. Why weren't they using that quick slant to DK in those games? It should have been the go-to play when the Bills blitzed the hell out of them in week 9 and henceforth but apparently it wasn't even in the playbook until last week.
this is a legit question.

After re-watching the game, I can tell you 100% Washington made a noticeable change from a 3 or 4 man front to 5 or 6 to stop the run, and RW IMMEDIATELY hit those slants back to back. Not coincidence. Where was that against the Giants?? Good freaking question.

But hell, hopefully they're past it.
In situations like this, why isn't Wilson checking into the slant or the appropriate counter measure to the defense? is he not reading the defense correctly? Does he not have enough time because they like to break the huddle with 7 seconds to go? Wilson should always have a green light to change plays - he's a vet, he's earned it. Every defense has a vulnerability - it's the QB's job to find it and exploit it. Payton Manning's entire career was based on seeing the area to exploit and attacking it - even if it meant checking into a run. He takes over the game - Wilson doesn't do this enough, IMO, and he has the skill set to do it. It's like he doesn't want to show up the coach or something. He's afraid of offending Schotty and getting 'cancelled'.

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Re: Post Mortem: Seattle v Washington Redskins Football Club

Post by D-train » Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:10 pm

auroraave wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:53 pm
SeattleAddict wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:07 am
Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:47 am
The previous 6 opponents (at least) had been sending extra defenders after Russ with regularity. Why weren't they using that quick slant to DK in those games? It should have been the go-to play when the Bills blitzed the hell out of them in week 9 and henceforth but apparently it wasn't even in the playbook until last week.
this is a legit question.

After re-watching the game, I can tell you 100% Washington made a noticeable change from a 3 or 4 man front to 5 or 6 to stop the run, and RW IMMEDIATELY hit those slants back to back. Not coincidence. Where was that against the Giants?? Good freaking question.

But hell, hopefully they're past it.
In situations like this, why isn't Wilson checking into the slant or the appropriate counter measure to the defense? is he not reading the defense correctly? Does he not have enough time because they like to break the huddle with 7 seconds to go? Wilson should always have a green light to change plays - he's a vet, he's earned it. Every defense has a vulnerability - it's the QB's job to find it and exploit it. Payton Manning's entire career was based on seeing the area to exploit and attacking it - even if it meant checking into a run. He takes over the game - Wilson doesn't do this enough, IMO, and he has the skill set to do it. It's like he doesn't want to show up the coach or something. He's afraid of offending Schotty and getting 'cancelled'.
:lol:
dt

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Post Mortem: Seattle v Washington Redskins Football Club

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:37 pm

I'm pretty sure Russ could give the finger to Schotty before every snap and at the end of the season the only person at risk of being cancelled would be the latter.

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Re: Post Mortem: Seattle v Washington Redskins Football Club

Post by SeattleAddict » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:32 pm

auroraave wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:53 pm

In situations like this, why isn't Wilson checking into the slant or the appropriate counter measure to the defense? is he not reading the defense correctly? Does he not have enough time because they like to break the huddle with 7 seconds to go? Wilson should always have a green light to change plays - he's a vet, he's earned it. Every defense has a vulnerability - it's the QB's job to find it and exploit it. Payton Manning's entire career was based on seeing the area to exploit and attacking it - even if it meant checking into a run. He takes over the game - Wilson doesn't do this enough, IMO, and he has the skill set to do it. It's like he doesn't want to show up the coach or something. He's afraid of offending Schotty and getting 'cancelled'.
he does. Comparing Peyton to Wilson isn't fair - they play the same position, but in completely different offensive concepts. But that might answer your question... Peyton's job was to throw for as many yards as possible, with 5 guys in the route nearly every play. Pass pass pass, unless a run is just too good to pass up. WIlson runs basically the exact opposite, run first, protect the ball at all costs. With that, the defense plays differently, too... extra linebacker in the box covers underneath zones, vs nickel packages. Secondly, as you pointed out, Peyton walked up to the line with 20 seconds left and made his own calls. RW is told to use the play clock and run it all the way down. They'll call a play and an alternate play and run one with one of those most of the time. When they go up tempo, RW takes on more of the Peyton role. Why they don't go more up tempo? Well, that's the coaching decision to manage the clock, I suppose.

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Re: Post Mortem: Seattle v Washington Redskins Football Club

Post by D-train » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:17 pm

Stone on the current state of the team:
By Larry Stone
Seattle Times columnist
At their core, the Seahawks in 2020 are all about getting further than they did last season.

Or, to put a finer point on it, getting further than Seattle has since making the Super Bowl in back-to-back seasons, 2013 and 2014.

Since then: A second-round ouster in 2015. A second-round ouster in 2016. No playoffs in 2017. A first-round ouster in 2018. A second-round ouster in 2019.

In other words, they arrived at the party, and had just begun to taste the hors d’oeuvres and mingle a little bit when they got thrown out on their ear.

So just reaching the playoffs, as the Seahawks achieved Sunday with their 20-15 victory over the Washington Football Team, means what? A solid accomplishment, obviously, but it’s not enough for this team.


The uncontained excitement of newcomers Jamal Adams and Carlos Dunlap — who both escaped hopeless, losing situations by being traded to the Seahawks — was refreshing to see after the victory. Adams never sniffed the playoffs with the Jets, and Dunlap hasn’t been there since 2015 with Cincinnati (and didn’t experience a win in five trips).

But the Seahawks have higher aspirations, toward which they’ve invested considerable resources — most especially to get Adams from New York. As coach Pete Carroll said Sunday, “We’re playing for everything, which is great.”

That’s not to say that it’s Super Bowl or bust for Seattle — although defensive back D.J. Reed framed it that way after the game when he said, “If we don’t win the Super Bowl, in my opinion the season was a failure.”

Whether that’s a realistic way to look at things, there’s no doubt that for the Seahawks, the regular season is merely a prelude to what they hope is a deep playoff run. If that doesn’t happen, it would be hard to term this year a success.

The shape and texture of that quest is taking clearer shape by the week. Though they wobbled a bit in the second half, the Seahawks’ defense on Sunday continued its transformation from one of the worst in history to, at least statistically, one of the best in the NFL over the past six games.

In that span, they’ve given up an average of 16.0 points per game. The stingiest team in the NFL for the entire season, the Steelers, has given up 18.2 points per game. And Seattle has allowed 296 yards per game over those same six games. The stingiest team in the NFL in that category, the Rams, has allowed 286.1 yards per game over the season.

In other words, Seattle has started to play defense at an elite level, albeit with some major qualifiers. One of those games was against the Jets, who despite Sunday’s shocking victory over the Rams is hardly a beacon of offensive prowess. One was against a massively struggling quarterback, Carson Wentz, who has since lost his job. Two were against backup quarterbacks — Colt McCoy of the Giants, who actually beat them, and Dwayne Haskins of Washington, who had a chance to do so in the final minutes Sunday.

But that’s when Seattle’s defense stiffened up with three sacks on the final drive, two of them after Haskins had driven Washington to the Seattle 23-yard line inside of two minutes to make a comeback win a very real possibility. First L.J. Collier and then Dunlap dropped Haskins to preserve the victory and make Carroll a very happy man.

“The defense continues to play really, really good football,” Carroll said. “They played great all day long. We had a couple lapses in there when they got to dinking the ball around, and they did a nice job moving it; give them credit. But when we had to have it, we finished the game off, guys rallied and nailed three sacks in the last drive and (took) away their chance to win.”

Certainly, the Seahawks felt after last season they needed to bolster their defense to get past the second round, which is where they absorbed a five-point loss on the road to Green Bay in January. So, most dramatically, they traded two first-round picks in the offseason to get Adams, a huge statement for a team that covets draft picks.

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You can critique Adams’ coverage, but there’s no doubt he has provided a jolt to the defense with his 9.5 sacks (one of them coming Sunday) — the most in NFL history for a defensive back, despite missing four games to injury.

Yet the defense was floundering to a historic degree at the outset of the season, casting huge doubt on the Seahawks’ playoff potential despite a 5-0 start. Halfway through the season, Seattle was giving up 30.3 points a game and was on pace to yield more yards than any team in history.

Perhaps a soul-searching meeting called by defensive coordinator Ken Norton Jr. is what changed things. What helped just as much was the acquisition of Dunlap in Week 8, and the emergence of Reed, an under-the-radar acquisition by general manager John Schneider that Carroll raved about Sunday. Reed was out because of a torn pectoral muscle when Seattle claimed him off waivers from San Francisco and was willing to wait for the payoff.

Reed, too, joined the team in Week 8 and has helped stabilize the secondary through injuries to Shaquill Griffin, Quinton Dunbar and Tre Flowers.

Meanwhile, the pass rush that was viewed as a fatal flaw has turned into a strength. Besides Adams’ record-breaking contribution, Dunlap has five sacks in six games, two of them essentially game-clinchers. With four more sacks Sunday, the Seahawks have 28 in their past seven games, after having just 12 in their first seven. Overall, they’re in the top 10 in the NFL, and who saw that coming?

It’s enough to at least give hope that the Seahawks have the defense purring to an extent that they can be dangerous in the postseason. That was hard to envision when they were hemorrhaging yards and points like no team ever.

The Seahawks are settling into a modus operandi that Carroll has always coveted. With their rushing attack back to full strength, the days of letting quarterback Russell Wilson cook to his heart’s content appear to be on the wane — though it’s available at a moment’s notice.

For now it appears Carroll is content to establish the run and emphasize a quick passing game. Wilson was 18 of 27 for 121 yards in an outing Carroll likened to one by former Packers QB Bart Starr — not exactly a comparison that will thrill the cooking crowd. But that style works far better when it’s complimented by a defense that can wreak some havoc and limit the havoc-wreaking by the opposing offense. The Seahawks are getting closer to that description, though it will be tougher against playoff foes.

I thought this postgame Carroll quote was the most telling of where they stand, and where he’s taking them: “We were playing field position all day long, and (punter Michael Dickson) did a great job keeping them deep and making their offense go the long haul.

“So I really like that football. You saw it was the same last week. I’m hoping we can keep carrying it out and play the complementary football that really gives us a chance to be really hard to beat.”


For the Seahawks, the next two weeks will be about jockeying for playoff seeding. And then we’ll find out just how well-prepared they are for the season that really counts.
dt

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Re: Post Mortem: Seattle v Washington Redskins Football Club

Post by D-train » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:19 pm

So is improvement aka winning two playoff games enough or do we need to make the SB to call it a successful season.
At their core, the Seahawks in 2020 are all about getting further than they did last season.

Or, to put a finer point on it, getting further than Seattle has since making the Super Bowl in back-to-back seasons, 2013 and 2014.

Since then: A second-round ouster in 2015. A second-round ouster in 2016. No playoffs in 2017. A first-round ouster in 2018. A second-round ouster in 2019.
Losing the NFC championship game would continue improvement each year since the 2017 miss.
dt

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Re: Post Mortem: Seattle v Washington Redskins Football Club

Post by Michael K. » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:39 pm

I would be upset if we lost the NFCCG, but the season would be far from a failure at that point. We haven't advanced out of the second round in some time, so the Championship Game would seem like a big step forward, to me.

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Re: Post Mortem: Seattle v Washington Redskins Football Club

Post by douche » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:18 pm

In other words, Seattle has started to play defense at an elite level, albeit with some major qualifiers. One of those games was against the Jets, who despite Sunday’s shocking victory over the Rams is hardly a beacon of offensive prowess. One was against a massively struggling quarterback, Carson Wentz, who has since lost his job. Two were against backup quarterbacks — Colt McCoy of the Giants, who actually beat them, and Dwayne Haskins of Washington, who had a chance to do so in the final minutes Sunday.
Seattle HAS NOT started to play defense at an elite level. But they are playing better than they were earlier in the season. And they should be, with the acquisition of Dunlap and the return of Jamal Adams. The Rams should provide a real test.

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Re: Post Mortem: Seattle v Washington Redskins Football Club

Post by Michael K. » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:24 pm

douche wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:18 pm
In other words, Seattle has started to play defense at an elite level, albeit with some major qualifiers. One of those games was against the Jets, who despite Sunday’s shocking victory over the Rams is hardly a beacon of offensive prowess. One was against a massively struggling quarterback, Carson Wentz, who has since lost his job. Two were against backup quarterbacks — Colt McCoy of the Giants, who actually beat them, and Dwayne Haskins of Washington, who had a chance to do so in the final minutes Sunday.
Seattle HAS NOT started to play defense at an elite level. But they are playing better than they were earlier in the season. And they should be, with the acquisition of Dunlap and the return of Jamal Adams. The Rams should provide a real test.
I think he was referencing that the numbers stated it was elite...but he did preface that by saying it was against lesser competition.

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